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b"In the final of our recent series of interviews recorded in July, we speak to Clare Walsh, Deputy Secretary for the Global Cooperation, Development and Partnerships Group with Australia's Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. Clare\\u2019s large portfolio covers Australia\\u2019s global engagement, in particular our multilateral diplomacy, foreign aid program and thematic issues as diverse as infrastructure, climate change and gender.\\nIn a wide-ranging discussion, Clare begins the interview by explaining her background: how she went from working in local government in Western Australia early in her career to the highest-profile international issues today. Allan then asks Clare to give her assessment on how \\u201cshaky\\u201d the international order is at present, invoking his fixation with the US\\u2019 threatened withdrawal from the Universal Postal Union! Darren follows up by asking how Australia conducts diplomacy within the order: how do we convince others to work inside the order to reform it, rather than walking away, and how do we engage with countries on areas of mutual interest when we might have major disagreements on other issues?\\xa0\\nThe conversation shifts to human rights and development. What does it mean to \\u201ctake up\\u201d a human rights issue, what\\u2019s the multilateral / bilateral balance in Australian diplomacy, and how useful are the large multilateral forums like the Human Rights Council? Does Australia\\u2019s involvement in infrastructure programs represent a broadening of what \\u201cdevelopment\\u201d means in 2019 and what aid programs are asked to do? What about working with partners who are relatively wealthier\\u2014how do Australia's development assistance programs differ? And how has the entry of new funders\\u2014whether other governments or non-government actors\\u2014change the landscape for Australia?\\nThe conversation finishes up by zooming out. Allan asks what is distinct about what DFAT does (\\u201cwhat\\u2019s point of DFAT?\\u201d), while Darren asks about the securitisation of development and parallels to the familiar \\u201ceconomics vs security\\u201d debate.\\nAs always, we invite our listeners to email us at this address: australia.world.pod@gmail.com We welcome feedback, requests and suggestions. You can also contact Darren on twitter @limdarrenj\\nOur thanks go to outgoing AIIA intern Charlie Henshall for his help with audio editing, Rory Stenning for composing our theme music, and Martyn Pearce for technical assistance in studio.\\xa0\\nRelevant links\\nClare Walsh\\u2019s biography: https://dfat.gov.au/about-us/our-people/executive/Pages/biography-of-clare-walsh.aspx"