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The newsletter company Mailchimp made an impressive $700 million dollars in revenue in 2019 and, after 20 years, it\\u2019s still owned and operated by co-founders, Ben Chestnut and Dan Kurzius. On this episode, Ben shares his tactics for staying focused and calm through market crashes, tech disruptions, and now playing role model for CEOs who think success requires treating employees poorly. Manoush and Jen aren\\u2019t so sure about Ben\\u2019s advice regarding \\u201cscaling.\\u201d But as they play voice memos from listeners going through professional zigs zigs, they realize a serious truth about their own small business.

**Who You\\u2019ll Hear: **@manoushz (Manoush Zomorodi, host of ZigZag and cofounder of Stable Genius Productions), @jpoyant (Jen Poyant, cohost of ZigZag and cofounder of Stable Genius Productions), @benchestnut (CEO and cofounder of Mailchimp)

ZigZag is the business show about being human.

Join a community of listeners riding the twists and turns of late-capitalism, searching for a kinder, more sustainable way. Manoush Zomorodi and Jen Poyant investigate how work and business impact our wellbeing and the planet we live on. On Seasons 4 and 5, hear from rebels and visionaries with radical ideas on how we can build stable lives, careers, and companies.\\xa0

If you\\u2019re also interested in Jen and Manoush\\u2019s personal story and their adventures in starting their own business with a little help from blockchain technology, listen to the first three seasons, starting with Season 1, Chapter 1.

Thank you for supporting us by using\\xa0special offer codes\\xa0from our sponsors,\\xa0signing up for our free newsletter,\\xa0and subscribing to the show on\\xa0Apple Podcasts,\\xa0GooglePodcasts,\\xa0RadioPublic,\\xa0Stitcher,\\xa0Overcast,\\xa0Spotify, or\\xa0Breaker.