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CRIMINAL was a mega-hit long before the genre of true-crime took off in podcasting. On this episode, Manoush and Jen talk to the show\'s co-creators,\\xa0Phoebe Judge\\xa0and\\xa0Lauren Spohrer, about quitting their stable public radio jobs to start a company (sound familiar?), managing each other\'s quirks, and saying \'no\' to the many business opportunities that come their way. This duo has great advice for anyone trying to manage a partnership, balance creativity with bill paying, or just stay to one\'s weirdo self.

GO DEEPER:

\\nA\\xa0deep dive\\xa0into the messy relationship between true crime podcasts and justice.\\xa0How Phoebe and Lauren get it done from Raleigh\'s\\xa0The New & Observer.\\xa0The\\xa0New Yorker\\xa0article on the new golden age of podcast storytelling.\\xa0Guy Raz\'s mega-entrepreneur podcast in the\\xa0New York Times.\\xa0The Future of Voice and the Implications for News\\xa0from Reuters. It\'s a\\xa0bear market\\xa0for some podcast shops. More acronyms: PRX (of which Radiotopia is a branch)\\xa0merges\\xa0with PRI (think The World). Help someone discover the joy of listening by sharing Gretchen Rubin\'s free\\xa0Gift of Podcast\\xa0instructions. Btw, the SEC has a\\xa0new guide\\xa0to ICOs. And\\xa0Crypto\\xa0is crashing.

Who You\\u2019ll Hear:

Manoush Zomorodi (@Manoushz), Jen Poyant (@jpoyant), Phoebe Judge co-creator and host of Criminal (@PhoebeVJudge), Lauren Spohrer cocreator of Criminal (@laurenspohrer)

ZigZag is the business show about being human.

Join a community of listeners riding the twists and turns of late-capitalism, searching for a kinder, more sustainable way. Manoush Zomorodi and Jen Poyant investigate how work and business impact our wellbeing and the planet we live on. On Seasons 4 and 5, hear from rebels and visionaries with radical ideas on how we can build stable lives, careers, and companies.

\\n**If you\\u2019re also interested in Jen and Manoush\\u2019s personal story and their adventures in starting their own business with a little help from blockchain technology, listen to the first three seasons, starting with Season 1, Chapter 1.