Next Level Gaming
What\u2019s next for the future of gaming? To find out, Dona Sarkar chats with Joe Neate, Executive Producer of the hit pirate adventure, Sea of Thieves. Joe talks about major gaming trends that are influencing Sea of Thieves and the expansion of the game\u2019s rich storylines. Next, we explore the growing popularity of game streaming by chatting with Microsoft\u2019s Mixer team. Marketing director Jenn McCoy and engineer Chad Gibson discuss how the Mixer platform is sparking new experiences in gameplay and innovations in game design. Finally, we catch up with Windows Insiders at E3 and get their impressions on what\u2019s most exciting about the future of gaming.
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Episode Transcription
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 You're listening to the Windows Insider Podcast, Episode 16 -- Next-Level Gaming.\xa0 I'm your host, Jason Howard.
This episode, we'll be chatting about exciting trends hitting the gaming universe -- namely, gaming as a service, and interactive live streaming with Mixer.\xa0
First up, Dona Sarkar, head of the Windows Insider Program, sits down with Joe Neate, executive producer at Rare.\xa0 Rare is the game developer behind Sea of Thieves, the multi-player pirate adventure that has taken Xbox and Windows 10 by storm.\xa0 Here's Dona and Joe.
(Music.)
(Sea of Thieves pirate audio clip.) The life of a pirate is fraught with danger. For you see, to journey out onto the waves is to take a step into the unknown. There are things that have lived there and rulled there far longer than us. Great terrors from the deep. Some I\u2019ve seen with my own eye.
DONA SARKAR:\xa0 Hello, again, Insiders!\xa0 I'm Dona Sarkar, head of the Windows Insider Program.\xa0 And you just heard a snippet from one of the new content trailers for Sea of Thieves.\xa0 Here to talk about Sea of Thieves and new trends in the gaming universe is a very special guest -- Joe, welcome to the show. \xa0Could you start by introducing yourself to our audience and sharing a few words about what you do?
JOE NEATE:\xa0 Yes.\xa0 So I'm Joe Neate, and I'm the executive producer on Sea of Thieves.\xa0 Ultimately, I've been involved in the project from the very start from when it was kind of just Post-Its on a whiteboard figuring out what was next for Rare, through to what it is now.\xa0 Yeah, ultimately, responsible for vision and maintaining the vision and delivery and now running and operating, growing it as a service.
DONA SARKAR:\xa0 That's amazing.\xa0 I want to ask you all about the latest Sea of Thieves news -- our Insiders definitely want to know.\xa0 But first, can you please share what it's like to be the executive producer at a gam dev company like Rare, being the chief wrangler and all?
JOE NEATE:\xa0 It's an amazing responsibility.\xa0 So to have that responsibility of coming up with what is next for a studio like Rare.\xa0 You know, Rare has been in the gaming industry for 32 years now, which is pretty much since the games industry began, and they've done so many different games.\xa0 And so to have that opportunity to sit down and look at the kind of emerging trends in the industry, to see where player tastes are going and figure out what you think is going to be the place you should take gaming and you should take players with you is an incredible feeling.\xa0
Even just the different stages of game development from when you've just got the idea through to kind of pitching it to prototyping to getting into the real production of it, and then starting to build a community and bring fans in and then get people playing it and go through all of that, and then eventually get to launch and have an incredible launch.\xa0
And now we're in this place where we've got this game out there, we've got this huge community, and now we just want to grow and build on top of it.\xa0 I'm very privileged to have the job that I have and to get to do what I do every day.\xa0
DONA SARKAR:\xa0 That is amazing.\xa0 So for the very few, small number of people in our audience who are not yet familiar with Sea of Thieves, can you give us a quick rundown of what the game is all about?\xa0
JOE NEATE:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 Absolutely.\xa0 So when we set out at the start, we wanted to create what we called a "shared-world adventure game."\xa0 The acronym for that is SWAG, which we're particularly happy with for a pirate game, but we love our acronyms at Microsoft, right?\xa0
It's really about putting people into this shared-world, multi-player game where you're off on your own kind of pirate adventures, doing what you want to do in a pirate world from, you know, maybe you've grown up reading Treasure Island or you watch The Goonies or you love Pirates of the Caribbean, or anything like that.\xa0
And whenever you see a set of sails on the horizon, or you encounter another pirate on an island, that's going to be someone else.\xa0 And they're going to be on their own adventure doing their own things, too.\xa0 And the collision of those adventures, the encounters you have with other players out there are going to play out in different and unexpected ways every time, just like if you were, you know, a pirate out adventuring on the open sea.\xa0 And that's the world we wanted to create, where every time you play, the adventure is different, the encounters are different, and you're going to have these really memorable moments and stories that you want to tell your friends or you want to share and you want to stream it on Mixer or on Twitch, or you want to just go and post it on Twitter or on Reddit or wherever.
And that's what we've created.\xa0 We wanted to create a world where every adventure would be different, and we can put all these ingredients in.\xa0 And as we grow and evolve it, we'll just keep doing that.\xa0 We'll keep adding new ingredients for players to play with, leading to just richer and richer moments and stories.\xa0
DONA SARKAR:\xa0 That is amazing.\xa0 One of the key ingredients, as you said, is multi-player.\xa0 Now, gamers are pretty familiar with multi-player format since the good old days of Counter-Strike, World of Warcraft, et cetera.\xa0 And multi-player continues to be a big favorite among the gaming community.\xa0
In our view, what is game-changing -- ha -- about Sea of Thieves?
JOE NEATE:\xa0 I think a lot of multi-player can be very competitive and directly competitive.\xa0 You know, you listed Counter-Strike there, and if you were to go on Mixer or Twitch, you'd be looking at Fortnight and PUBG and all of those games out there now.
What we've tried to create is a game where we call it the "fun and welcoming" multi-player experience.\xa0 Where maybe you haven't really got into multi-player before because you're not an overly competitive player, you don't like that high kind of ceiling or barrier to entry, or maybe you've experienced toxicity or negativity in a multi-player environment before.
We tried to create a game that encourages different online interactions and encounters between players.\xa0 There's an emphasis on cooperation in crews, but also if you encounter other crews, you can have those moments, too.\xa0 And, yes, there's room for competition in a pirate game, but we've tried to do it in a way that's tonally right, that doesn't encourage real competitive multi-player.\xa0 And so we've just tried to create something that appeals to a wider group of people than perhaps are just playing multi-player now and scratches different kind of motivational itches, I guess.\xa0
That's always been our goal.\xa0 And, again, as we grow and evolve it, we want to keep doing that.\xa0 We always want to encourage different player encounters, different stories, so that you can have really memorable multi-player moments in the right way from encountering other players.\xa0
DONA SARKAR:\xa0 That fits me exactly because I'm inherently not competitive, so that idea of like a collaborative multi-player sounds super interesting.\xa0
So, can you break down this gaming-as-a-service thing that you guys are adopting and working on -- or a service-based game, as some people say?\xa0 How is it different than a boxed game that releases an expansion pack every once in a while?
JOE NEATE:\xa0 We built our game form the ground up with the goal of basically updating and growing and adding content to it as far into the future as we can see, you know, as far as people will be playing and updating it.\xa0
For us, that means there's always -- we launched just over two months ago, right?\xa0 And had a fantastic launch, loads of people come in, like overwhelmingly large amounts of players coming in that far exceeded all of our expectations and numbers.\xa0 Which led to the first couple of weeks, we were stabilizing and making sure everything was working as expected.\xa0 You know, the amount of concurrent players and users we had exceeded any scale tests we'd done up to launch.\xa0
But we want to really swiftly kind of get through that phase and get into the position where we're updating the game on a weekly basis.\xa0 So we run quite a lot of automated testing internally when we're writing features and entering stuff into the game.\xa0 We try and test it as we go to try and not build up loads of technical debt.\xa0
And it means we have a decent degree of understanding when we're releasing features that the game's going to stay live, it's going to stay working.\xa0 But we've always wanted to basically have an ability to react to our players, to update, to release new content, new cosmetics, new stuff, but also whenever you play the game, we always just want there to be new things to return to.
So we've just released our first content update called The Hungering Deep.\xa0 And this is where we've released this new AI threat, this megalodon into this world, so this giant shark that's now out there.\xa0 Players have to kind of hunt it down, work together to take down this threat and earn these rewards around it.\xa0
But beyond that, we then want to move into weekly events.\xa0 So every week, we're going to be introducing something cool that's new to players, like there's a new goal with a new set of rewards, a new way the play, and really, it's about keeping players engaged with your game for as long as possible and as regularly as possible because players nowadays love to keep playing in that same world and in that same kind of social space with their friends, or friends they've made playing that game.\xa0 And they love to embrace this and play for years.\xa0 Right?\xa0 We see this with a lot of games now.
And so I think it's our responsibility to keep bringing new players to the Sea of Thieves, but also to give players that have played it as many reasons to return and to keep playing it because that's how player behavior has gone with whichever game it is that's out there now -- PUBG or Fortnight or League of Legends or World of Warcraft -- many different things.\xa0
But we've set ourselves up to be able to keep delivering new things, to keep listening to what players are saying, and also change our plan.\xa0 We want to be very reactive based on what feedback is coming in, what telemetry is telling us, and what other things players are liking the most, what things that they want to see more of.
I think that kind of direct communication with your community in terms of listening to feedback, updating them to what you're doing is a super important part of the games as a service because if you just go dark or go quiet and don't talk to your players, don't let them know that you're listening, don't let them know what you're doing next, don't let them know that you're listening to their feedback and you're hearing it, they won't stay connected and they'll start mistrusting you and everything.
We're trying to deliver a game that players love and that players want to keep playing for years, ultimately, but that's a big "ask" from us to our players.\xa0 And so I think there's a big responsibility for us as a studio and as a development team to be very open and transparent, to let people know what we're doing, why we're doing it, what we're making decisions and that we're in this for the long haul and that we're very respectful of the feedback and opinions they have.\xa0 That's been a big part of our strategy prior to launch with our Insider program that we have for Sea of Thieves, and then post launch as well, we're behaving very much the same.
DONA SARKAR:\xa0 So you're very much co-creating with your Insiders, the game, what they're looking for, et cetera, et cetera?
JOE NEATE:\xa0 Yes.\xa0
DONA SARKAR:\xa0 That's awesome.\xa0 As you know, Windows Insider Program is all about getting users involved in the evolution of Windows, and I love hearing that Rare has its own Insider program where you do something similar, and your fans have had a heavy hand in this gaming-as-a-service thing that you guys are doing, which is fabulous.
So, Sea of Thieves is gorgeous.\xa0 I am bad at playing it, but I like to watch people play.\xa0 So this is where Mixer is really useful for me, because I think it's beautiful and absorbing both in terms of visuals and the stories.\xa0 And for people like me, how is the trend of live streaming games, such as on Mixer and such, factored into the design of Sea of Thieves?\xa0 Because I recently learned that the number of people watching people play games has surpassed the number of people actually playing games.\xa0 I find that fascinating and wonder how it affects your design plans.
JOE NEATE:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 So we conceived Sea of Thieves about four years ago now in terms of just coming up with the idea, coming up with what we want it to be.\xa0 And before it was even a pirate game, and way before it was called Sea of Thieves, the original pitch slides was called Players Creating Stories Together.\xa0 And we always envisioned a game that because you give players this shared world, because you kind of give them control over their own goals and you give them a bunch of emergent tools, and those encounters with other players, in a world where there's some cooperation, some competition, would lead to really interesting stories which are naturally going to be watchable and shareable.\xa0
So it, inherently, was built into the game's design from the very start.\xa0 And, you know, we were watching games like DayZ back in the day, like even a big science fiction space opera.\xa0 There were really interesting stories emerging from them, whether it was on YouTube at the time because Twitch had only really started up and Mixer wasn't even a thing then.
But we saw this avenue of -- this was the way that we thought games were going, that the more emergence and control that you let go of, and as game creators, it's quite hard to relinquish control, right, and hand it to our players, because you naturally want to create this crafted experience where everyone has this perfect story or moment or thing that you've designed, whereas we now hand control of the game to our players, and we give them some goals and there are things to go and achieve.
But also the thing that we're most excited about and the thing that we love the most is whenever there's an unexpected story or a moment that we didn't predict from the different tools we've given players.\xa0 And so it's been inherent in the design from the get go from two perspectives, from a cold, hard, business and strategic perspective, we made a really good choice because of the way that the games industry has taken off in that way over the last four years.\xa0
But from a richness of watching, and like I say, every adventure being different, it kind of depends who you're watching and what they're up to and what players they encounter or what things happen to them in the world, that's what makes it so watchable, because you never know what's going to happen, right?\xa0 Everyone's adventure is different.\xa0 It's not like everyone's playing to the same story.\xa0 You get to see their reactions to it, but once you've seen it once, you're done.\xa0 But you can watch Sea of Thieves with any players, anybody, and it's going to be different each time based on their reactions, based on their personality because they get to put their personality into the stream, into the session that they're broadcasting.\xa0
DONA SARKAR:\xa0 I love watching gamers because they're all so different, and tremendously entertaining to watch, especially if they're streaming on Mixer.\xa0
So I'm sure, like me, you're about to head into E3 and the pandemonium that comes with it, but this podcast won't air until after E3's done.\xa0 Are there any updates on Sea of Thieves that you'd like to give us a sneak peek of?
JOE NEATE:\xa0 At E3, itself, we're going to turn up with another little teaser trailer and what this is showing is kind of a glimpse into what's coming in Cursed Sails and The Forsaken Shores, which are our next two content updates beyond The Hungering Deep, which has just come out prior to E3.
So in Cursed Sails, we're introducing a new AI threat into the world that you're going to get a glimpse of, and it's quite fantastical in the trailer itself, and it's something that we've never really let our players know is coming, so that's going to be fun.
And then The Forsaken Shores is actually a new part of the world that's much more perilous, much more volcanic, so there's going to be a really interesting, more dangerous part of the world to adventure into and explore for players.\xa0 And both of those are coming during the summer.
DONA SARKAR:\xa0 The Forsaken Shores, I'm going to name my office that, that sounds amazing.\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 That sounds pretty cool.\xa0 Awesome.\xa0 Well, we're about out of time.\xa0 Thank you so much for being here, Joe.\xa0 I really, really appreciate your time.\xa0 And be more pirate.\xa0 Thank you.\xa0
JOE NEATE:\xa0 Yes.\xa0 Thank you very much. Cheers.
(Music.)
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 As Dona mentioned, game streaming is becoming extremely popular with more people today watching games that be playing them.\xa0 Gaming broadcasts can command massive audiences.\xa0 As this trend continues to develop, it's becoming clear that game streaming isn't limited to being a spectator sport.
Platforms like Mixer are unleashing new interactive features that enable viewers to participate alongside streamers, including participation in live game play.\xa0 With Mixer recently celebrating its one-year anniversary, we have Microsoft engineers from the Mixer team here in the studio to chat about the future of game streaming.\xa0
(Music.)
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Hi, Jenn and Chad, welcome to the show. \xa0Could you each introduce yourselves to our audience?
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Sure.\xa0 I'm Jenn McCoy, I lead marketing for Mixer.
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 And my name's Chad Gibson, and I'm the general manager of Mixer.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Welcome aboard.\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Thanks.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 So I've go to ask you real quick.\xa0 Obviously, you know, gaming is a big thing here at Microsoft and, you know, of course across the world, right?\xa0 Who is your game character alter ego and why do you think they are?
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Usually I play RPGs where I get to make my alter character me.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Oh, okay.\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Yeah.
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 So you make your own self yourself?\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 A little bit.\xa0 Maybe a little taller.\xa0 (Laughter.)\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 I'm usually a support player.\xa0 Like in most games I play, I usually support or heal.\xa0 So maybe like Lucio from Overwatch, I like him a lot.\xa0 He's pretty cool because he makes people either faster or he helps them heal.\xa0 That resonates with me really well.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Immediately having flashbacks to the Medic in Team Fortress 2.
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Yeah, Medic as well.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 I was always a heavy because, well, you know?\xa0 It's just always fun that way.\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Playing Tank is fun, playing Tank is a lot of fun, too.\xa0 (Laughter.)
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 So for those who are unfamiliar with Mixer, could you briefly summarize what Mixer is, what the platform represents?
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 Mixer is Microsoft's next-generation live streaming service where we really seek to blur the lines between what it means to watch and to play.\xa0 Chad, do you want to talk a little bit about how we do that?\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Sure.\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 We really want to help streamers interact with their audience more.\xa0 So we have our streaming technology called Faster Than Light, which allows us to stream with milliseconds of delay between the streamer and their audience.\xa0 So anything the audience is saying, the streamer can pick up on that really quick and it helps the two really interact more.\xa0
Low latency also enables interactivity, where we have a bunch of experiences where viewers can do anything from trigger sound effects or actually manipulate the game they're watching someone play.\xa0 It really helps make the audience a member of the game and a part of the game and bring them closer with the broadcaster.\xa0
And we have a bunch of other features we do as well that really help deliver new and unique streaming experiences, like co-streaming, where a bunch of users can kind of stream together, play the game together, tell the story of their campaign, of their team, or whatever fun story they want to tell.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Awesome.\xa0 So real quick, because I don't want to forget this part, because this is actually kind of important, Mixer just celebrated its one-year anniversary.\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Yeah.
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 So, congratulations, right?\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Thank you.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 And you guys have definitely come a long way, some of the numbers that have been kind of passed around, it's like the user base has quadrupled, if I understand that correctly?
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Yes.\xa0 So we announced back in December that we exceeded 10 million monthly active users for the first time.\xa0 And then Phil, on Sunday, announced that Mixer's grown to more than 20 million monthly active users.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Oh, my goodness.\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 So doubling in the past six months.\xa0 It's just been incredible to see how much the community and the streamers and our viewers have supported the growth of the service.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 So you're saying your marketing is working?\xa0 (Laughter.)\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 I'm saying things are going really well, we're having a lot of fun.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 All right.\xa0 So how do you interpret this huge upswing, right?\xa0 Obviously, with the trend of game streaming in general, as well as the success of the Mixer platform itself?\xa0 Like, what's driving this?\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 As you said, there's a lot of growth in the industry overall.\xa0 More and more people are spending time watching game play and connecting with streamers, and then we've been very fortunate to have a number of amazing streamers and content creators come to the platform, really focused on growing their audience and helping be ambassadors for Mixer, helping spread the word of our really positive and welcoming community, some of the unique features that we bring, and some of the fun content that our team's putting together.\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Yeah, one of the things that surprised us probably the most dramatically about maybe a little over a year ago, when we started bringing native broadcasting into Windows and Xbox One, we had high hopes for that feature, but it's far surpassed all of our expectations.\xa0 We made it really easy to share and stream to Mixer, and that resonated with way more people than we thought.\xa0 And when those people started streaming on Mixer, you know, they started engaging with the community and started feeling welcomed and engaging more with the community and enjoying the community.\xa0 And that number of users who are native broadcasting has been growing phenomenally.\xa0 Like, that's probably the one growth curve and chart that is just blowing our minds.\xa0
And that enabled things like the Hype Zone, where we can allow all those people who are streaming PUBG or Fortnight or Rainbow 6 or Realm Royale to you know showcase one of those many people are about to win and deliver a nice audience to them.\xa0 And it's another great way to discover new streamers.
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 Hyper Zone's been incredible for exactly what you say, that you can see streamers of all size, and they just have a couple of years and they have thousands of viewers, but they get in the Hype Zone and have everybody watching on the Hype Zone channel drop in and watch their moment victory or defeat, depending on how things go.\xa0 Sometimes there is the Hype Zone curse that rears its ugly head, but it's kind of fun.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Uh-oh, hold on, you've got to tell me, what's this Hype Zone curse?
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 It's the pressure.
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Yeah.
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 So you're streaming with your friends, you're playing PUBG or Fortnight and you're doing well and all of a sudden, you're about to win and then you have, you know, 500 or 1,000 viewers all of a sudden watching you and hyping you up.
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Pressure!\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 The pressure, like, "I'm in the Hype Zone."\xa0 And you want to win, you want to show a victory for all those people, but sometimes the pressure can be too much.
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Uh-oh.\xa0 (Laughter.)
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 So we have a custom emote that's Hype Zone cursed, Hype Zone cursed.\xa0 (Laughter.)
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 I'm going to do a shameless self-pitch here.\xa0 We, on the Windows Insider Program, we actually use Mixer.\xa0 We have our webcast series where we bring on engineers and people from other teams.\xa0 It's amazing to see how quickly we say something and then just even watching on the stream, coming from a separate computer, right?\xa0 So we're watching the chat and everything.\xa0 To see how quickly it shows up and then people's reactions.\xa0
And there's no other platform that I've tested, seen, watched, anything that does it that quickly and that seamlessly.\xa0 It's amazing.\xa0 It's been beautiful to use, and I can tell just over the past year how much work has been put into the platform to not only keep it stable from where it was when Microsoft acquired what used to be Beam, but to where it's grown to now, seeing all this hard work is just amazing.\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 And that's really a big focus, exactly what you talk about -- the viewers being able to participate and be a natural part of the conversation.\xa0 We don't want live streaming to just be a one-way experience, we want the viewers to be able to come in and participate and have an impact on the stream, have an impact with each other and have a real connection with the streamer.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 So as part of this anniversary that you've hit and some of the other milestones, obviously, there's a lot of changes that are coming to the platform.\xa0 Like, what are some of the things you're excited about that you're introducing to the platform or that you have recently brought forward for users to use or streamers to take part in and actually engage with?\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 During the one-year celebration, we announced our UI refresh, which is in some private branches right now, and I was just playing with that this morning.\xa0 It's really exciting.\xa0 It's exciting for a couple reasons.\xa0 It allows us to showcase some unique Mixer channels, such as the Hype Zones, it also provides more ways to discover more content, more ways to get to browse filters.\xa0 There's a bunch of really fun ways to, you know, I want to watch a co-stream, I want to watch an interactive stream, I want to watch a stream in my language.\xa0 We made a bunch of those features super easy for people to find content, and it's a more polished version of Mixer.
And so that should be going out soon-ish.\xa0 The feature bench is looking great, and that's something that's going to be a great improvement for everyone on Mixer.\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 And Mixer Pro subscribers can actually check it out early and give us feedback on it before we release it to the general public.
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Yes.\xa0 They have been giving us a lot of great feedback, and it's getting better quickly.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 I've got to admit, you know, obviously, doing what I do, preview programs hold a special place in my heart.\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 (Laughter.)
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 We also announced a new Hype Zone.\xa0 So we announced the Hype Zone for Rainbow Six Siege, it was the first time that we went beyond the battle royale genre to be able to bring the Hype Zone experience to just a very different type of game play. And it's been really fun to see, you know, overtime matches and really close matches come to life in the Rainbow Six Hype Zone.
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Yeah, and then, of course, with some of the more recent announcements at E3, I'm sure -- I'm not going to ask you to say what you have up your sleeve, but I'm sure you're probably working on something, because there's some really awesome content coming both from Microsoft being first party, as well as some of the third-party developers who, you know, produce games for our platforms, both for Xbox as well as PC and then of course beyond that.\xa0 There's some really cool stuff coming.
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 We've done a lot of, I would say, experimental experiences that really blur the line between is it a game, is it a show?\xa0 And there's a bunch of that stuff coming.\xa0 I'm really excited about that.\xa0
We had some of those developers on our stage, I believe, like we have a new Death's Door coming, which is a game that's only played via the Mixer channel, and that I think is coming at the end of June.\xa0 But that whole area of really trying to create and deliver a new medium, we have a bunch of those types of experiences coming all this summer.\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Yeah, Death's Door will be coming out next week, Death's Door Aftermath.
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 So something interesting, for me, one of my good friends, he has a young son who is really, really into Minecraft.\xa0 But he wasn't about playing Minecraft himself, he was really into watching other people play Minecraft.\xa0 So he would sit there and endlessly watch hours upon hours of YouTube videos to get ideas and see what other people were doing, what they were creating, the worlds they were exploring and playing in.\xa0
And for me, I was like, why?\xa0 Why wouldn't he want to be in there participating in the game, doing it himself, having that experience?\xa0
But I have to say, after our team having done streaming on the platform, and then of course to learn more about the platform, you know you just get in and explore, right?\xa0 So there are groups of people that I follow, games that I enjoy watching, you know, just the interaction.\xa0 It set a very different perspective for me.\xa0 I still don't want to go watch hours of videos on YouTube, right?\xa0 For those that do, hey, great, right?\xa0 Gives them ideas and, you know, some jumping-off points.\xa0
But watching somebody immersed in the game real time, and feeling like you're there with them and being able to talk to them as, you know, they're listening on their headphones and they've got the game pumping and music going, right?\xa0 They're watching the chat and having some of that interaction.\xa0 It's a very different experience than just sitting there watching some static video content on YouTube or any other platform that they may be viewing it on.\xa0
So that kind of leads me to what I want to ask you next.\xa0 With Mixplay and some of those new interactive opportunities, developers can build different types of interactions into their games.\xa0 Can you talk a bit about this trend of interactive streaming concepts?\xa0 What does it mean to interact with a live game?\xa0 And can you give us some discussions about that type of experience?\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 I mean, we're at a really interesting point in the gaming industry where I think the traditional definition of a player is changing.\xa0 And we even hear it from a lot of our particularly younger audiences that their belief is they've played the game, even if what they've really done is watched somebody else play it.\xa0 But as you say, like you're viewing and actually feeling like an active part of it.\xa0
And that's the core of what Mixer and Mixplay is all about is having the viewing audience feel like they are just as much a part of the gameplay experience as the person who's actually hands on controller or hands on the keyboard.\xa0
A couple of the great examples that we've seen, actually, there's a really fun one that was created internally -- Mixer Mini Golf -- where you have hundreds and hundreds of people competing in this fun mini golf experience, trying to see who gets the lowest score.\xa0 If you get the lowest score, you then get to create the course for the next round.
And it's just really fun.\xa0 If you think about, mini golf doesn't sound like a multi-player or community experience, but when you've got lots of little mini golf balls running all over the place, like, it's just fun, it's entertaining, and it's a different take on what you would think of as live streaming.\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Yeah, I agree.\xa0 And one of my favorite examples is a game Hello Neighbor that launched -- I think it was earlier this year.\xa0 And Hello Neighbor is a game built by tinyBuild, and the goal is to basically go into your neighbor's house, steal things, take things without them seeing you.\xa0 And tinyBuild provided this mechanic where the viewers can actually alert the neighbor, which you do not want the neighbor to know you're there.\xa0
So people who are playing this game, not only do they need to, like, figure out how to, like, sneak into the neighbor's house, but now they need to do so while knowing their viewing audience may, you know --
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Is going to rat them out.
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 -- tip them off, yeah, at any moment.\xa0 So it created this whole new game mechanic.\xa0 And some creators, it frustrated them; but some, it was such a fascinating next-level game play.\xa0
One of the things I think that we really strive for is a world where every game is built where the viewing audience is part of the game.\xa0 That's a really deep and challenging concept, which is why we're doing a bunch of different things on that journey to show what is really meaningful, what can engage the viewers without adjusting the game play in an unfair way, and that's where I think there's a lot of excitement in the months to come.
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 And the gamers, themselves, obviously, they have different options they can choose on how they want to represent what they're doing to their watching audience, right?\xa0 You know, they can change some of like the floating boxes and I've seen, you know, animations drop across the stream, and of course there's the concept of subscribing to a channel.\xa0 And when that happens, you know, the balloons and the confetti drops across the screen, right?\xa0 It's a really good way to kind of co-celebrate both with the other people watching as well as the person who's actually doing the gaming.\xa0
There are some of those personal connections that get built for people that live on one side of the world versus another, or people who don't necessarily tend to get out and interact, but this gives them a way to kind of be social within a level that fits their comfort, so they don't have to go out and try to force themselves to be somebody that they're not.
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 They're part of a community.\xa0 They have a connection, streamer and audience, or even within the audience.\xa0 People are getting to know each other, regular names that they see showing up in chat or interacting with the different buttons.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 I will say, at E3 I saw a few of the streamers who I've, you know, interacted with and watched in the past, and walking up and you can see there's that little question or look on your face, you'll be, like, "Do I recognize you?"\xa0 Because for me, you know, the beard's pretty recognizable, and so that's just a photo of me as my avatar.\xa0 So I've got that little head-tilt look. \xa0And I'm like, "Yes, I am @NorthFaceHiker."\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 It is me.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 And they're, like, "Oh, hey!"\xa0 And then, you know, you just kind of kick off that conversation.\xa0 It's nice to meet people, you know, in person after that.\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 And there's a lot of creative things that our streamers have done with Mixplay, all the way from the visual or audio effects that the audience can implement, but we've had people use Mixplay for physical environmental things, too.\xa0
So, for example, having the audience change the lighting in the studio from red to blue to green, we have one gentleman, Sorry About Your Cats, who lets the audience actually control mini robots using the Mixplay technology.\xa0 So during his stream, the audience is actually controlling robots in the background on the stream.\xa0
We've had people use it to control different camera angles.\xa0 The whole idea is it's a tool set that the content creators can use to create the experience that fits with them, whether that's digital, physical, or actually getting into the game play itself.
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 So the whole concept of sparks on the Mixer platform, right?\xa0 Where the longer you view, you start gaining Sparks.\xa0 And then that's kind of like the avenue to some of these interactions and clicking some of the buttons and things like that.\xa0 Have you all thought about monetizing that at all?\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Absolutely.\xa0 (Laughter.)\xa0 I think the thing that we're really motivated by is allowing viewers to support the creators and streamers, really supporting patronage, supporting ways for communities to get built.\xa0 And for many of these streamers, it's their full-time job.\xa0 And we love lots of investments in the area that allow the viewers to better support the communities they join, and so Sparks is a great potential area for that to go further.\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 One of the other programs that we implemented pretty recently is this idea of Mixer direct purchase, where a streamer can actually showcase a game or DLC that they're playing, and let the community purchase directly through their channel, and then the streamer gets a portion of that revenue.\xa0 So it's a way that the viewing audience, again, can support the streamer with their purchase, but then also they get to benefit from the streamer doing a great job of showcasing, hey, here's this new game or new DLC that you should check out.
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Sounds like this whole platform has gone from, "Hey, I just want to see if other people want to watch me playing a video game," to an entire new world that people are stepping into now.
So I've got to ask you, and this is going to be a tough question, so get ready for it.\xa0 Obviously, there's a huge user base, and Mixer is one of several platforms out there.\xa0 It's one of the most recognizable, which is something I'm very happy for being, you know, a Microsoft employee and whatnot.\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Oh, you're saying the branding is really good?\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 You know, you might be doing your job well.\xa0 (Laughter.) \xa0So here's the tough question:\xa0 What, in your mind, sets Mixer apart from some of the other well-known platforms, such as Twitch?
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 There's actually two big things to me that are really differentiators of Mixer versus any other platform.\xa0 The first is our community.\xa0 We are just super fortunate to have an amazing community that's very welcoming, very positive, very self-reinforcing.\xa0 If you have someone that shows up in a channel that's maybe being a little troll-like, it's amazing to see the community react to that and just be, like, "Hey, that's not what we're about.\xa0 That's not what we do."\xa0
Similarly, if you have someone new that's saying, "Hey, I'm a Mixer for the first time," the community really rallies around and says, "Oh, hey, let me show you how you do this," or, "Welcome, you know, so and so, to Mixer," giving them tips, that type of thing.\xa0 And it's something Matt and James really invested in when they first founded the company, and it's continued and has pervaded the entire sense of Mixer since then.\xa0 So community is, by far, the biggest differentiator for us.
And then the second is this idea of really blurring the lines between watching and playing.\xa0 And so the investments that we've made with Mixplay, the investments that we've made with Hype Zone and some of the other technologies to bring viewers into the experience in a way that you just don't see on any other platform.\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 I agree with Jenn.\xa0 The community is probably the number-one difference between us and other platforms.\xa0 It's positive on so many dimensions, and it's really interesting and fun talking to creators who have streamed on YouTube, Facebook, or Twitch and hearing about their first-week experience and, like, they knew that community was a big part of Mixer, but then when they feel it and they experience it themselves, it's really fun to hear about those positive experiences.\xa0 So I totally agree that that is one of the biggest differences.
The other one, it's probably a combination of a lot of the things we're trying to do differently.\xa0 A lot of our features have been super unique, like co-streaming was a very unique feature.\xa0 The fact that we're trying to deliver video in such a very different way with FTL and our Mixplay experiences and Hype Zone, like, we really want to create new and unique and very interesting things.\xa0 And I think that desire to explore new territory also resonates really positively with a lot of people.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 So I'm going to level-up for just a moment.\xa0 Obviously, you know, with E3 being wrapped up at this point, there was a lot of announcements that came out of it between changes that are coming to consoles and platforms, a bunch of the games.\xa0 Looking specifically at the trends in game streaming, obviously both of you are very well connected into this, is there anything besides what you're working on that you see kind of coming forward in the next month, six months, a year, whether it came from E3 or if it's just a general trend that you're seeing developing in this particular space?\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 The thing that stands out to me the most is the agility of game developers and how they're using live streaming to really get real-time reactions from their players, from their audience, and use that to adjust the game.\xa0
The best example I can give you is Fortnight, right?\xa0 I think Epic has just done a tremendous job of really thinking about Fortnight as a service and being very on it just with feedback from the community, making new experiences, new content, and that I think is where we just are going to see more and more games going, of being super agile and super two-way experiences between the game developer and the community.\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 I agree with that.\xa0 One thing I would add is prior to the Beam acquisition, we gained our opinion of the game video industry, and how we thought it was going to grow and where we thought there were opportunities.\xa0 And this E3, to me, made me believe that our previous estimates were maybe a little conservative.
I think the game video industry, the way it's expanding in so many different ways, across the world in different countries, it's expanding in new capabilities, we're seeing games just leverage it more and more and more where I think there's so much more to come.\xa0
And so I think the growth of the overall game video segment or industry is growing faster than we certainly thought two years ago.\xa0 That was made apparent to me this last E3.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 That's kind of a good problem to have.
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 It is.\xa0 It is.\xa0 And it's a great problem to have.\xa0 I mean, it's a huge market, and it's growing, and we can achieve all of our goals by just doing our thing.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Somebody can throw out something enticing to get an old dog like me back into playing video games.\xa0 Hey, somebody's doing something right.\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 All right, one more really fun question for you before we wrap up here:\xa0 Are there any hints about what's coming with Mixer itself that you can talk about?\xa0 This is always a fun question, I love asking it.
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 I'd say a couple things.\xa0 I mean, one, actually, that UI refresh that will be coming to the whole Mixer user base later this summer, that's a big investment for us.\xa0 We're super excited about that.\xa0
I do think you will continue to see us adding and innovating to our Hype Zone experiences.\xa0 We added the Realm Royale experience this week as a partnership with Hi-Rez Studios, and that's been a lot of fun.\xa0 And we will continue to think about, like, how do we optimize and grow that Hype Zone experience?\xa0 What else?\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Yeah.\xa0 We've been doing some interesting things to really try to present e-sports in a new ways.\xa0 So with SMITE, we've been presenting that with some of our co-stream features, and we just deployed I think at the one-year anniversary, a new interactive dashboard that shows real-time stats from the SMITE e-sports league.\xa0
And so the general area of e-sports, we also think is an area where we can change it a lot.\xa0 When I go to an e-sports event and I see the energy of the crowd and the people cheering, and then when I watch it online, there's a lot of energy we can bring to the Mixer experience.\xa0 We're doing a lot more of that in the years to come.\xa0
And generally, with Mixplay, you're going to see in the coming months a much larger volume of unique Mixplay experiences.\xa0 And, frankly, knowing about the portfolio of what's coming, it's super diverse.\xa0 That's probably the most exciting part about it.\xa0 A bunch of developers doing some really, really interesting, creative things, which I think is going to surprise a lot of people.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 So a little bit of teasing without too much detail, but hey, you know?\xa0 I'll take what I can get here.\xa0
So, obviously, Mixer being mixer.com, getting started seems pretty simple, right?\xa0 Webcam and a mic and game on whatever platform you decide to stream on.\xa0 It's pretty easy to connect those dots, there's lots of helps and how-to online.\xa0 The entire community is there to do some support.\xa0 Anything that I'm missing here?\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Well, for people who want to stream, we made it really easy with Windows with the Game Bar.\xa0 So Windows Game Bar, you can stream to Mixer pretty easily.\xa0 And in Xbox, it's all integrated into the guide to stream to Mixer.\xa0 So for users who want to start sharing and streaming, those are phenomenal ways to get going.
And then on your phone, you can download Mixer Create and start streaming on your phone as well.\xa0 And we have viewing experiences on Xbox One, we have a great Web experience for the desktop, we have mobile viewing experiences on iOS Android, so we're going to continue to offer great viewing and streaming experiences across all of those devices.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Beautiful.\xa0 Any parting wisdom for our listeners?\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 I would just encourage everyone, you know, whether you want to just share your game play with friends or if you actually want to take that first step towards building an audience, try it out, have fun with it because so much about streaming on Mixer is bringing your personality to the table, and we're obviously very focused on gaming, but we have streamers that do all kinds of different creative things.\xa0 We have folks that are artists, we have musicians, we have people that do cooking shows.\xa0 So it really is just an amazing platform to show your creativity and to connect with people who care about what you care about.\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 One thing I would suggest is when you start viewing a Mixer stream for the first time, you know, find a game you play or browse around a stream that's interesting to you and just say hi.\xa0 I think that first moment where you say hi and you know the streamer will probably say something back and you start just joining a community and engaging, that's where you experience the really, really fun part of Mixer.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 Awesome.\xa0 Well, Jenn, Chad, it's been fantastic chatting with you.\xa0 Thank you both so much both for being here to speak with us today, but as well as, you know, the work you do day in and day out to help make this platform the success it's become.\xa0 And I say that both as a viewer of Mixer itself as well as a user of the platform.\xa0 So big thanks to you and the rest of the team that supports you guys day in and day out.
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 Thanks for having us.
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Thank you.\xa0
JENN MCCOY:\xa0 It's been a lot of fun, and we're excited to just continue to grow the service.\xa0
CHAD GIBSON:\xa0 Yeah, thank you.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 The Windows Insider team, including yours truly, was on the ground at E3 and hosted a special happy hour for our Insiders.\xa0
We caught up with a few Insiders over drinks, and got their impression on what's exciting about the future of gaming.\xa0 Here's Tyler Ahn at E3.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 The Insider team had a blast at E3 this year.\xa0 We caught up with some Insiders at our awesome E3 happy hour to get their take-aways from this epic event.\xa0
Hi! how are you?\xa0 Please introduce yourself and a sentence on what you're working on.
HOLLY AMOS:\xa0 My name's Holly Amos, and I'm an assistant producer on the new online Star Trek CCG, Star Trek Adversaries.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 Fantastic.\xa0 We're so happy to have you here.\xa0 What gets you most excited when you think about the future of gaming?\xa0
HOLLY AMOS:\xa0 I've actually noticed that there's a lot of storytelling, and it's like 50 percent almost like you're in a movie, and then 50 percent actual game play.\xa0 And I think based on the fact that I grew up with stuff like, you know, Super Mario Bros, where you were just trying to beat a level, the story aspect is really interesting to me.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 Hi, who are you?\xa0 Please introduce yourself and a sentence on what you're working on.\xa0
MAX DINK:\xa0 Oh, hi.\xa0 My name is Max Dink.\xa0 Currently, I am working on a custom metal wallet for card holding.\xa0 I'm an engineer, so that's what I do.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 So why did you want to join us at E3 this year?
MAX DINK:\xa0 Well, I wanted to be part of, you know, the convention, you know, Windows Insider Program is nice, they brought me out here.\xa0 And you know, get to see new games.\xa0 New games.\xa0 A lot of new games.\xa0 (Laughter.)
TYLER AHN:\xa0 There were a lot of new games today.\xa0 So when you think about the future of gaming, what gets you most excited?\xa0
MAX DINK:\xa0 Definitely VR because almost everyone is having VR now.\xa0 And definitely AI for computers and just you know when you play a game, AI is better than just pre-programmed actions.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 Hello, who are you?\xa0 Please introduce yourself and tell me what you're working on.\xa0
JENNIFER KING:\xa0 Hi, my name is Jennifer King, and currently I'm working toward my software engineering degree, master's degree, at Cal State Fullerton.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 Fantastic, congratulations.\xa0
JENNIFER KING:\xa0 Thank you.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 So what brings you to E3 this year?\xa0
JENNIFER KING:\xa0 We were invited by Windows Insider and this is our third consecutive year now, thank you so much for bringing us out here.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 What gets you most excited when you think about the future of gaming?\xa0
JENNIFER KING:\xa0 I think the community is definitely something that gets me really excited about gaming because you can interact with other people and you can play games with other people, connect with them, and then even meet them in real life.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 Hello, hello!\xa0 Who are you?\xa0 Please introduce yourself and tell me what you're working on.\xa0
SONYA SATURDAY:\xa0 My name is Sonya Saturday, I'm a cartoonist.\xa0 I am currently working on a coloring book called Socially Conscious White Ladies.\xa0 And my website is sonyasaturday.com.
TYLER AHN:\xa0 Fantastic.\xa0 So what brings you to E3 this year?
SONYA SATURDAY:\xa0 The Windows Insider Program brought me to E3 this year, and I'm very appreciative of everything they're doing.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 What gets you most excited when you think about the future of gaming?\xa0
SONYA SATURDAY:\xa0 I'm really excited about the future of storytelling potential with games, about making something more realistic and interactive, something that's more like film and true life.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 Hi!\xa0 Who are you?\xa0 Please introduce yourself and tell me what you're working on.
HARMONY VAN LUVEN:\xa0 Hey, Tyler.\xa0 My name's Harmony Van Luven.\xa0 I'm the creative director of Frolic Games.\xa0 And right now, I'm working on learning improving, and currently focusing on a website that sells video game accessories to women.
TYLER AHN:\xa0 Awesome, I like that niche.\xa0 So what brings you to E3 this year?
HARMONY VAN LUVEN:\xa0 I was invited by the Windows Insider Program.\xa0 I'm looking forward to just talking with everybody and learning all of the amazing things that are new and I guess released -- and Halo 6 or the next Halo.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 What gets you most excited when you think about the future of gaming?
HARMONY VAN LUVEN:\xa0 We're finally at that crossroads where -- we're at that crossroads where graphics are becoming hyper-realistic, so much so that now, finally, the suspension of disbelief can be -- it feels like you're actually there and it's you.\xa0
TYLER AHN:\xa0 Games becoming real.\xa0 Super real.\xa0
HARMONY VAN LUVEN:\xa0 Super real.\xa0
JASON HOWARD:\xa0 That's it for Episode 16.\xa0 Get next month's episode automatically by subscribing on your favorite podcast app.\xa0 You can also find all of our awesome past episodes on the Windows Insider website at insider.windows.com.
And if you're not an Insider yet, it's easy and free to sign up and join the global community shaping the future of Windows.\xa0
Thanks for listening to the Windows Insider Podcast, I'm your host, Jason Howard.\xa0 Until next time.\xa0
NARRATION:\xa0 The Windows Insider Podcast is produced by Microsoft Production Studios and the Windows Insider team, which includes Tyler Ahn -- that's me -- Michelle Paison, Ande Harwood, and Kristie Wang.
Visit us on the Web at insider.windows.com.\xa0 Follow @windowsinsider on Instagram and Twitter.
Support for the Windows Insider Podcast comes from Microsoft -- empowering every person and every organization on the planet to achieve more.
Please subscribe, rate, and review this podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
Moral support and inspiration come from Ninja Cat, reminding us to have fun and pursue our passions.
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founders, Dona Sarkar and Jeremiah Marble.
Join us next month for another fascinating discussion from the perspectives of Windows Insiders.
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