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Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Fountain, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Pandora, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.\nCelestia, a data availability layer for blockchains, was launched last October to much fanfare. The platform takes a modular approach to blockchains, allowing developers to post data onto it without the need for smart contracts or execution. This makes it extremely useful for scaling roll-ups and other layer two technologies.\xa0\nCelestia co-founder Mustafa Al-Bassam and COO Nick White join Unchained to discuss what Celestia is and how it works, how data availability sampling allows for more scalability, how Celestia compares with other data availability layers, whether Celestia could become a data availability layer for Bitcoin, and comparisons between Celestia and Solana.\xa0\nShow highlights:\n\nMustafa\u2019s background and how his project called Lazy Ledger ended up becoming Celestia\n\nNick\u2019s vision for modular blockchains\n\nWhy Mustafa believes in the \u201c10,000 roll-up\u201d endgame\n\nWhy Mustafa thinks that gaming and NFT chains work better on a modular blockchain\n\nWhat Celestia is and how it resembles the publication of an article in a newspaper\n\nWhat data availability sampling (DAS) is and how it works to ensure that the data is available and accurate for validators\n\nHow DAS allows for more scalability\n\nWhat types of applications can be built with this type of modular architecture\n\nMustafa\u2019s explanation of the concept of Blob stream and blob space\n\nHow a roll-up can be an independent or sovereign layer, not just a layer 2 to a layer 1\n\nHow Celestia competes with other DA layers, like the future EigenDA\n\nThe role of the TIA token in the Celestia ecosystem\xa0\n\nHow Mufasa hacked the CIA when he was 16 years old and how he transitioned into crypto\n\nWhether Celestia could become a DA layer for Bitcoin layer 2 roll-ups\n\nWhether Solana could end up becoming an Ethereum layer 2 using Celestia for data availability\xa0\n\nThe proposal to extend the functionality of Celestia without smart contracts in the base layer\xa0\n\nThank you to our sponsors!\n\nPopcorn Network\n\nPolkadot\n\nGuests:\n\n\nNick White, COO at Celestia Labs\n\nPrevious appearances on Unchained: Three Crypto Pioneers on Crypto\u2019s Monolithic vs. Modular Debate\n\n\n\nMustafa Al-Bassam, cofounder and CEO at Celestia Labs\n\nLinks\nModular vs. monolithic\n\nAlchemy: Modular vs. Monolithic Blockchains\n\n\nVisa: Monolithic vs. modular blockchain\n\n\nChris Burniske\u2019s tweet on modular vs monolithic\n\n\n\u201cThe horrific inefficiencies of monolithic blockchains\u201d by polynya\n\nBlockworks: A spicy salvo launched in the monolithic vs modular debate\n\n\nUnchained: What Is the Blockchain Trilemma?\n\n\nCelestia\n\nCelestia\u2019s explanation of modular blockchains\n\nData availability\n\nData availability sampling\n\nAn introduction to sovereign roll-ups\n\n\nLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices