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\u201cToday, we are supercompetent when it comes to efficiency, utility, speed, convenience, and getting ahead in the world; but we are at a loss concerning what it\u2019s all for,\u201d Leon Kass writes in his 2017 book \u201cLeading a Worthy Life.\u201d \u201cThis lack of cultural and moral confidence about what makes a life worth living is perhaps the deepest curse of living in our interesting time.\u201d\n\nKass spent more than 30 years as an award-winning teacher at the University of Chicago, where he gained a reputation among students for his commitment to the big questions of human existence and the study of classic texts. And he\u2019s written books and essays on marriage, sports, ethics, friendship, romance, the philosophy of food, biblical wisdom and more. In many ways, Kass\u2019s career represents a lifelong effort to grapple with the biggest question of all: What does it mean to live a meaningful life?\n\nThis conversation, between Kass and the New York Times Opinion columnist David Brooks, is an attempt to answer that question. Along the way, they discuss the difference between choosing a career and discovering a vocation; the key ingredients of a successful romantic relationship; how to distinguish between superficial friendships and life-altering ones; why finding the right job is less about searching within ourselves and more about committing to something beyond ourselves; Kass\u2019s view that the most distinctive thing about individuals isn\u2019t their race, gender or class but \u201cthe ruling passions of their souls\u201d; and what the biblical Exodus story can teach Americans about how to live together more harmoniously.\n\nMentioned:\nFounding God\u2019s Nation by Leon Kass\nThe Second Mountain by David Brooks\n\nBook Recommendations:\nThe Hebrew Bible, especially Genesis and Exodus\nDemocracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville\nDaniel Deronda by George Eliot\n\nThis episode is guest-hosted by David Brooks, a New York Times columnist, whose work focuses on politics, culture and moral formation. He currently serves as chair of Weave: The Social Fabric Project at the Aspen Institute in Washington, D.C. and is the author of several books, including \u201cThe Second Mountain: The Quest for a Moral Life.\u201d You can follow him on Twitter @nytdavidbrooks. (Learn more about the other guest hosts during Ezra\u2019s parental leave here.)\n\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\n\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.\n\n\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rog\xe9 Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld; audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin and Alison Bruzek.