This Conversation Will Change How You Think About Trauma
\u201cTrauma is much more than a story about something that happened long ago,\u201d writes Dr. Bessel van der Kolk. \u201cThe emotions and physical sensations that were imprinted during the trauma are experienced not as memories but as disruptive physical reactions in the present.\u201d\n\nVan der Kolk, a psychiatrist by training, has been a pioneer in trauma research for decades now and leads the Trauma Research Foundation. His 2014 book \u201cThe Body Keeps the Score,\u201d quickly became a touchstone on the topic. And although the book was first released seven years ago, it now sits at No. 1 on the New York Times best-seller list, a testament to the state of our national psyche.\n\nThe core argument of the book is that traumatic experiences \u2014 everything from sexual assault and incest to emotional and physical abuse \u2014 become embedded in the older, more primal parts of our brain that don\u2019t have access to conscious awareness. And that means two things simultaneously. First, that trauma lodges in the body. We carry a physical imprint of our psychic wounds. The body keeps the score. But \u2014 and I found this more revelatory \u2014 the mind hides the score. It obscures the memories, or convinces us our victimization was our fault, or covers the event in shame so we don\u2019t discuss it.\n\nThere\u2019s a lot in this conversation. We discuss the lived experience of trauma, the relationship between the mind and the body, the differences between our \u201cexperiencing\u201d and \u201cautobiographical\u201d selves, why van der Kolk believes human language is both a \u201cmiracle\u201d and a \u201ctyranny,\u201d unconventional treatments for trauma from E.M.D.R. and yoga to psychedelics and theater, how societies can manage collective trauma like 9/11 and Covid-19, the shortcomings of America\u2019s \u201cpost-alcoholic\u201d approach to dealing with psychic suffering, how to navigate the often complex relationships with the traumatized people we know and love, and much more.\n\nMentioned: \n\n\u201cThe Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Study\u201d by Vince Felitti et al.\n\nStudy on efficacy of EMDR\n\n\u201cREBUS and the Anarchic Brain: Toward a Unified Model of the Brain Action of Psychedelics\u201d by Robin Carhart-Harris et al. \n\nBook Recommendations:\n\nThe Apology by V \n\nLove in Goon Park by Deborah Blum\n\nThe Narrow Road to the Deep North by Richard Flanagan \n\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein.\n\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\n\n\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rog\xe9 Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld, audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin.