b'There are few periods of U.S. history that are as vigorously debated, as emotionally and civically charged as the American Revolution. And for good reason: How Americans interpret that period \\u2014 its heroes, its villains, its legacy \\u2014 shapes how we understand our social foundations, our national identity, our shared political project.\\n\\nWoody Holton is a historian at the University of South Carolina, a leading scholar of America\\u2019s founding and the author of numerous books on the period, including, most recently, \\u201cLiberty Is Sweet: The Hidden History of the American Revolution.\\u201d\\n\\nHolton\\u2019s work presents a fundamental challenge to the version of the American Revolution that most of us were taught in grade school. In his telling, America\\u2019s \\u201cfounding fathers\\u201d were far less central to the country\\u2019s founding than we imagine. Class conflict was just as important a cause of the Revolution as aspirational ideals, if not more. And the way Holton sees things, the American Constitution was a fundamentally capitalist document designed to rein in democracy, not expand it.\\n\\nBut Holton\\u2019s work shouldn\\u2019t be understood solely as a revisionist account of a particular era in history. It also provides a unique lens for rethinking some of the defining features of our present \\u2014 the disconnect between the kinds of policies that democratic majorities support and what our systems of government enable, the fervor to which we cling to national heroes like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, the enduring challenges of governing a fractious, deeply divided society, the complex relationship between material interests and ideology and much more.\\n\\nMentioned\\n\\n\\u201cRhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution\\u201d by Gordon S. Wood\\n\\nThe Framers\\u2019 Coup by Michael J. Klarman\\n\\nUnruly Americans and the Origins of the Constitution by Woody Holton\\n\\nBook recommendations\\n\\nA Midwife\\u2019s Tale by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich\\n\\nThe Negro in the American Revolution by Benjamin Quarles\\n\\nRebecca\\u2019s Revival by Jon F. Sensbach\\n\\nThis episode is guest-hosted by Jamelle Bouie, a New York Times columnist whose work focuses on the intersection of politics and history. Before joining The Times in 2019, he was the chief political correspondent for Slate magazine. You can read his work here and follow him on Twitter @jbouie. (Learn more about the other guest hosts during Ezra\\u2019s parental leave here.)\\n\\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.\\n\\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\\n\\n\\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\\u201d is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rog\\xe9 Karma; fact-checking by Mary Marge Locker and Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld, audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin.'