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b'Donald Trump can seem like a political anomaly. You sometimes hear people describe his connection with his base in quasi-mystical terms. But really, Trump is an example of an archetype \\u2014 the right-wing populist showman \\u2014 that recurs across time and place. There\\u2019s Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, Boris Johnson in Britain, Javier Milei in Argentina. And there\\u2019s a long lineage of this type in the United States too.\\n\\nSo why is there this consistent demand for this kind of political figure? And why does this set of qualities \\u2014 ethnonationalist politics and an entertaining style \\u2014 repeatedly appear at all?\\n\\nJohn Ganz is the writer of the newsletter Unpopular Front and the author of the forthcoming book \\u201cWhen the Clock Broke: Con Men, Conspiracists, and How America Cracked Up in the Early 1990s.\\u201d In this conversation, we discuss how figures like David Duke and Pat Buchanan were able to galvanize the fringes of the Republican Party; Trump\\u2019s specific brand of TV-ready charisma; and what liberals tend to overlook about the appeal of this populist political aesthetic.\\n\\nThis episode contains strong language.\\n\\nMentioned:\\n\\n\\u201cRight-Wing Populism\\u201d by Murray N. Rothbard\\n\\n\\u201cThe \\u2018wave\\u2019 of right-wing populist sentiment is a myth\\u201d by Larry Bartels\\n\\n\\u201cHow we got here\\u201d by Matthew Yglesias\\n\\nBook Recommendations:\\n\\nWhat Hath God Wrought? by Daniel Walker Howe\\n\\nAfter Nationalism by Samuel Goldman\\n\\nThe Politics of Cultural Despair by Fritz R. Stern\\n\\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\\n\\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of \\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\\u201d at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.\\n\\nThis episode of \\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\\u201d was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing from Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show\\u2019s production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.'