The Case for Prosecuting Trump
The Jan. 6 hearings have made it clear that Donald Trump led a concerted, monthslong effort to overturn a democratic election. The extensive interviews \u2014 over 1,000 \u2014 that the House select committee conducted prove that Trump was told there was no evidence of election fraud, but he pressed his anti-democratic case regardless. And it appears that the hearings may be making an impact on public opinion: An ABC News/Ipsos survey released Sunday found that 58 percent of respondents believe Trump should be charged with a crime for his role in the Jan. 6 attack, up from 52 percent in April.\n\nBut after all the evidence comes to light, will he actually face legal consequences? If the answer is no, then what might future presidents \u2014 including, perhaps, Trump himself \u2014 be emboldened to do? And what would that mean for the future of the American political system?\n\nJamelle Bouie is a Times Opinion columnist and co-host of the podcast \u201cUnclear and Present Danger.\u201d Bouie brings a remarkable historical depth to his writing about American politics. His columns about Jan. 6 \u2014 and the troubling idiosyncrasies of Trump\u2019s presidency before it \u2014 have shown how the former president\u2019s illiberal actions have threatened the constitutional foundation of American government. So I asked him on the show to help me process the Jan. 6 hearings with an eye to America\u2019s past, and also to its uncertain future.\n\nWe discuss why Jan. 6 may be not just an insurrection but \u201ca kind of revolution or, at least, the very beginning of one\u201d; how the anti-democratic nature of the American Constitution makes our system vulnerable to demagogues like Trump; the most important takeaways from the hearings so far; what could happen in 2024 if Trump is allowed to walk free; what Trump allies are already doing to gain power over elections; why refusing to prosecute Trump would itself be a \u201cradical act\u201d; why Republicans have grown increasingly suspicious of \u2014 and hostile to \u2014 representative democracy; why Bouie thinks prosecuting Trump would be worth the political fallout it would cause; and more.\n\nMentioned:\n\n\u201cTrump Had a Mob. He Also Had a Plan.\u201d by Jamelle Bouie\n\n\u201cAmerica Punishes Only a Certain Kind of Rebel\u201d by Jamelle Bouie\n\n\u201cProsecute Trump? Put Yourself in Merrick Garland\u2019s Shoes.\u201d by Jack Goldsmith\n\nBook recommendations:\n\nFree Soil, Free Labor, Free Men by Eric Foner\n\nSalmon P. Chase by Walter Stahr\n\nWhat It Took to Win by Michael Kazin\n\nWe're hiring a researcher! You can apply here or by visiting nytimes.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/News\n\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\n\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of \u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.\n\n\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d is produced by Annie Galvin and Rog\xe9 Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair; mixing and original music by Isaac Jones; audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Special thanks to Kristin Lin and Kristina Samulewski.