On Children, Meaning, Media and Psychedelics
I feel that there\u2019s something important missing in our debate over screen time and kids \u2014 and even screen time and adults. In the realm of kids and teenagers, there\u2019s so much focus on what studies show or don\u2019t show: How does screen time affect school grades and behavior? Does it carry an increased risk of anxiety or depression?\n\nAnd while the debate over those questions rages on, a feeling has kept nagging me. What if the problem with screen time isn\u2019t something we can measure?\n\nIn June, Jia Tolentino published a great piece in The New Yorker about the blockbuster children\u2019s YouTube channel CoComelon, which seemed as if it was wrestling with the same question. So I invited her on the show, and our conversation ended up going places I never expected. Among other things, we talk about how the decision to have kids relates to doing psychedelics, what kinds of pleasure to seek if you want a good life and how much the debate over screen time and kids might just be adults projecting our own discomfort with our own screen time.\n\nWe recorded this episode a few days before the Trump-Biden debate \u2014 and before Donald Trump chose JD Vance as his running mate. We then got so swept up in politics coverage we never got a chance to air it. But I am so excited to finally get this one out into the world.\n\nThis episode contains strong language.\n\nMentioned:\n\n\u201cHow CoComelon Captures Our Children\u2019s Attention\u201d by Jia Tolentino\n\n\u201cCan Motherhood Be a Mode of Rebellion?\u201d by Jia Tolentino\n\nHow to Do Nothing by Jenny Odell\n\nBook Recommendations:\n\nLonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry\n\nIn Ascension by Martin MacInnes\n\nWhen We Cease to Understand the World by Benjamin Labatut\n\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\n\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of \u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.\n\nThis episode of \u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show\u2019s production team also includes Jeff Geld, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.