Margaret Atwood on Stories, Deception and the Bible
A good rule of thumb is that whatever Margaret Atwood is worried about now is likely what the rest of us will be worried about a decade from now. The rise of authoritarianism. A backlash against women\u2019s social progress. The seductions and dangers of genetic engineering. Climate change leading to social unrest. Advertising culture permeating more and more of our lives. Atwood \u2014 the author of the Booker Prize-winning novels \u201cThe Blind Assassin\u201d and \u201cThe Testaments,\u201d as well as \u201cThe Handmaid\u2019s Tale,\u201d \u201cOryx and Crake\u201d and, most recently, the essay collection \u201cBurning Questions\u201d \u2014 was writing about these topics decades ago, forecasting the unsettling world that we inhabit now. Pick up any one of her 17 published novels, and you will likely come across a theme or a quality of the setting that rings eerily true in the present day.\n\nThis is especially true of Atwood\u2019s magnum opus, \u201cThe Handmaid\u2019s Tale,\u201d which takes place in a future America where climate change, droughts, a decaying economy and falling birthrates lead to the rise of a theocracy in which women called Handmaids are conscripted into childbirth. The repressive regime she created in that novel, Gilead, has been endlessly referred to and reinterpreted over the years because of the wisdom it contains about why people cooperate with \u2014 and resist \u2014 political movements that destroy the freedom of others. And as recent weeks have shown, we\u2019re far from the day when that wisdom becomes irrelevant to present circumstances.\n\nWe discuss the deep human craving for stories, why Atwood believes we are engaged in \u201can arm wrestle for the soul of America,\u201d what makes the stories of the Bible so compelling, the dangerous allure of totalitarian movements, how the shift from coal to oil helped to fuel the rise of modern consumerism, why she thinks climate change will cause even more harm by increasing the likelihood of war than it will by increasing the likelihood of extreme weather, how our society lost its capacity to imagine new utopias, why progressives need to incorporate more fun into their politics, why we should \u201ckeep our eye on the mushroom,\u201d Atwood\u2019s take on recent U.F.O. sightings and more. She even sings a bit of a song from the 1950s about the Iron Curtain.\n\nMentioned:\n\nArt & Energy by Barry Lord\n\nBook recommendations:\n\nWar by Margaret MacMillan\n\nBiased by Jennifer L. Eberhardt\n\nSecrets of the Sprakkar by Eliza Reid\n\nCharlotte\u2019s Web by E. B. White\n\nLord of the Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien\n\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\n\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of \u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.\n\n\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rog\xe9 Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld; audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Special thanks to Kristin Lin, Kristina Samulewski, Coral Ann Howells and Brooks Bouson.