BROADCASTS.com

There\u2019s something of a paradox that has defined my experience with artificial intelligence in this particular moment. It\u2019s clear we\u2019re witnessing the advent of a wildly powerful technology, one that could transform the economy and the way we think about art and creativity and the value of human work itself. At the same time, I can\u2019t for the life of me figure out how to use it in my own day-to-day job.\n\nSo I wanted to understand what I\u2019m missing and get some tips for how I could incorporate A.I. better into my life right now. And Ethan Mollick is the perfect guide: He\u2019s a professor at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania who\u2019s spent countless hours experimenting with different chatbots, noting his insights in his newsletter One Useful Thing and in a new book, \u201cCo-Intelligence: Living and Working With A.I.\u201d\n\nThis conversation covers the basics, including which chatbot to choose and techniques for how to get the most useful results. But the conversation goes far beyond that, too \u2014 to some of the strange, delightful and slightly unnerving ways that A.I. responds to us, and how you\u2019ll get more out of any chatbot if you think of it as a relationship rather than a tool.\n\nMollick says it\u2019s helpful to understand this moment as one of co-creation, in which we all should be trying to make sense of what this technology is going to mean for us. Because it\u2019s not as if you can call up the big A.I. companies and get the answers. \u201cWhen I talk to OpenAI or Anthropic, they don\u2019t have a hidden instruction manual,\u201d he told me. \u201cThere is no list of how you should use this as a writer or as a marketer or as an educator. They don\u2019t even know what the capabilities of these systems are.\u201d\n\nBook Recommendations:\n\nThe Rise and Fall of American Growth by Robert J. Gordon\n\nThe Knowledge by Lewis Dartnell\n\nBlindsight by Peter Watts\n\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\n\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of \u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.\n\nThis episode of \u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing from Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show\u2019s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Rollin Hu. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.