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b'"I don\\u2019t think conservatism can do its job in a free society in opposition to the institutions of that society,\\u201d Yuval Levin told me. \\u201cI think it can only function in defense of them.\\u201d\\n\\nLevin is the director of social, cultural and constitutional studies at the American Enterprise Institute, as well as the author of a number of great books, most recently, \\u201cA Time to Build.\\u201d I wanted to talk to him about a very specific question, though: What will the Republican Party become? Levin is one of its most thoughtful and sober analysts \\u2014 a temperament that may, I realize, make him unsuited to interpreting its current incarnation, in which a majority of House Republicans voted to reject the results of the 2020 presidential election and one of them is, well, Marjorie Taylor Greene.\\n\\nBut Levin\\u2019s diagnosis is interesting. Histories of the modern Republican Party often place Ronald Reagan at their center. That is, in Levin\\u2019s view, a mistake. \\u201cI think Reagan is better understood as a detour from a history that is otherwise a story of a constant struggle between populism and conservatism,\\u201d he said. Donald Trump was an inheritor of a tradition that stretches long before him \\u2014 Pat Buchanan\\u2019s tradition, and Strom Thurmond\\u2019s tradition. He didn\\u2019t form a new Republican Party; he allowed a long-existing part to express itself.\\n\\nBehind that lie institutional changes both in the Republican Party and in the broader structure of American politics. That\\u2019s why I wanted to talk to Levin for this episode of \\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\\u201d: He, like me, thinks in terms of institutions. \\u201cThe question for us in the coming years is whether we can move a little more in the direction of a politics of \\u2018what does government do,\\u2019 and less of a politics of \\u2018who rules,\\u2019\\u201d he says.\\n\\nThat\\u2019s exactly the right question, in my view. But we have very different views of what kinds of institutional changes would get us there. I\\u2019d like to see a more democratized, majoritarian system. Levin would, among other things, add a filibuster to the House.\\n\\nSo this is more than just a conversation about how to fix the Republican Party. It\\u2019s a conversation about how to fix American politics \\u2014 how to recenter it on policy that changes people\\u2019s lives, rather than symbolic clashes that merely harden our hearts.\\n\\nMentioned in this episode:\\n\\n\\u201cBig Tech, Big Government: The Challenges of Regulating Internet Platforms,\\u201d National Affairs, Winter 2021\\n\\nThe Working Class Republican: Ronald Reagan and the Return of Blue-Collar Conservatism by Henry Olsen\\n\\n"Democrats, Here\\u2019s How to Lose in 2022. And Deserve It." by Ezra Klein\\n\\nRecommendations: \\n\\n"On Empire, Liberty, and Reform: Speeches and Letters" by Edmund Burke\\n\\n"Reflections On The Revolution In France" by Edmund Burke\\n\\n"The American Crisis" by Thomas Paine\\n\\n"The Rights of Man" by Thomas Paine\\n\\n"Conservatism: An Invitation to the Great Tradition" by Roger Scruton\\n\\n"Freedom From the Market: America\\u2019s Fight to Liberate Itself from the Grip of the Invisible Hand" by Mike Konczal\\n\\n"Social Democratic Capitalism" by Lane Kenworthy\\n\\n"The Upswing" by Robert Putnam with Shaylyn Romney Garrett\\n\\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein.\\n\\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\\n\\n\\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\\u201d is produced by Rog\\xe9 Karma and Jeff Geld; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld.'