A Radical Way of Thinking About Money

Published: March 24, 2023, 9 a.m.

It\u2019s been two weeks since the Silicon Valley Bank run, and we\u2019re still feeling the ripple effects \u2014 not just at banks like Signature, First Republic and Credit Suisse, which are definitely taking a beating. Across the industry, too, banks are on edge, and regulators are rushing to keep the system together.\n\nEvery financial crisis is different. And every financial crisis is the same. Assets that a lot of people thought were safe \u2014 mortgage-backed securities in the 2008 crisis and long-term Treasury bonds in this latest bank run \u2014 end up not being so secure. When assets start failing, people panic. Usually, regulators pick up the pieces with some kind of bailout, and there are calls for more oversight. The theory goes that regulations should focus on keeping a couple of wayward institutions in line, and we\u2019ve gone through this playbook over and over again. We\u2019re going through it now, and it\u2019s time we take a different approach to banking regulation.\n\nMorgan Ricks is a law professor at Vanderbilt University who thinks those measures often miss the mark in addressing the problems baked into our banking system. He\u2019s worked both on Wall Street and in the Treasury Department. He wrote the book \u201cThe Money Problem,\u201d which reflects on the 2008 financial crisis. But the theory he presents in the book ends up being explanatory today.\n\nWe discuss what lessons banking regulators missed from the Great Recession; the need to panic-proof the entire financial system, as opposed to developing regulations around a systemic risk that he finds hard to define; why it\u2019s important now to revisit the basics of banking, its relationship to creating money and the tendencies that get banks in trouble; the government\u2019s role in insuring or backstopping deposits; what it would mean for the government to start treating money as a public good for us all; and more.\n\nMentioned:\n\n\u201cScrap the Bank Deposit Insurance Limit\u201d\xa0by Lev Menand and Morgan Ricks\n\n\u201cFedAccounts: Digital Dollars\u201d by Morgan Ricks, J. Crawford and L. Menand\n\nBook Recommendations:\n\nFlash Boys by Michael Lewis\n\nThe Idea Factory by Jon Gertner\n\nThe Fed Unbound by Lev Menand\n\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\n\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of \u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.\n\nThis episode of \u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\u201d was produced by Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emefa Agawu, Annie Galvin and Jeff Geld. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Jeff Geld. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Carole Sabouraud and Kristina Samulewski.