A Libertarian and I Debate the Debt Ceiling
b'On Jan. 19, the United States officially hit its debt limit. In response, the Treasury Department began using accounting maneuvers known as \\u201cextraordinary measures\\u201d to continue paying the government\\u2019s obligations temporarily. But according to Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, that money could run out as soon as June 1. If the United States hasn\\u2019t raised or suspended its borrowing cap, known as the debt ceiling, by then, America will default on its debt.\\n\\nBut Republicans are currently refusing to raise the debt ceiling until their policy demands are met. Negotiations between House Speaker Kevin McCarthy and the Biden administration are ongoing, but it is very difficult to see a deal that McCarthy\\u2019s hard-line members would vote for and Biden would sign. Meanwhile, default \\u2014 and the accompanying economic calamity \\u2014 draws ever closer.\\n\\nVeronique de Rugy is an economist at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University and a nationally syndicated columnist. For years, she\\u2019s argued that the United States\\u2019 debt levels are far too high and has defended the debt ceiling as a way to rein them in. I disagree. In my view, the debt ceiling is one of the most absurd and dangerous laws on the books. So I invited her on the show to make her case.\\n\\nBut I also wanted to talk about the broader fiscal picture on which this entire fight is predicated. America\\u2019s debt is currently about 100 percent of the U.S. G.D.P., up from just 35 percent in 2007, and is projected to reach 185 percent by 2052. Meanwhile, Social Security is projected to run out of its cash reserves by 2033, and the trust fund funding Medicare hospital coverage (Medicare Part A) is projected to run out by 2028.\\n\\nWhat do those numbers actually mean? How worried should we be about them? And what could be done to address our growing debt?\\n\\nMentioned:\\n\\n\\u201cThe Debt-Ceiling Fight Is a Symptom of Congress\\u2019s Disease\\u201d\\xa0by Veronique de Rugy\\n\\n\\u201cThe Liquidation of Government Debt\\u201d\\xa0by Carmen M. Reinhart and M. Belen Sbrancia\\n\\nBook Recommendations:\\n\\nRange by David Epstein\\n\\nKindly Inquisitors by Jonathan Rauch\\n\\nLet Them In by Jason L. Riley\\n\\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\\n\\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of \\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\\u201d at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.\\n\\nThis episode of \\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\\u201d was produced by Roge Karma. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Mary Marge Locker, and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Jeff Geld. Our production team is Emefa Agawu, Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld, Roge Karma and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Carole Sabouraud and Kristina Samulewski.'