b'N.K. Jemisin is a fantasy and science-fiction writer who won three consecutive Hugo Awards \\u2014 considered the highest honor in science-fiction writing \\u2014 for her \\u201cBroken Earth\\u201d trilogy; she has since won two more Hugos, as well as other awards. But in imagining wild fictional narratives, the beloved sci-fi and fantasy writer has also cultivated a remarkable view of our all-too-real world. In her fiction, Jemisin crafts worlds that resemble ours but get disrupted by major shocks: ecological disasters, invasions by strange, tentacled creatures and more \\u2014 all of which operate as thought experiments that can help us think through how human beings could and should respond to similar calamities.\\n\\nJemisin\\u2019s latest series, which includes \\u201cThe City We Became\\u201d and \\u201cThe World We Make,\\u201d takes place in a recognizable version of New York City \\u2014 the texture of its streets, the distinct character of its five boroughs \\u2014 that\\u2019s also gripped by strange, magical forces. The series, in addition to being a rollicking read, is essentially a meditation on cities: how they come into being, how their very souls get threatened by forces like systemic racism and astronomical inequality and how their energies and cultures have the power to rescue and save those souls.\\n\\nI invited Jemisin on the show to help me take stock of the political and cultural ferment behind these distressing conditions \\u2014 and also to remember the magical qualities of cities, systems and human nature. We discuss why multiverse fictions like \\u201cEverything Everywhere All at Once\\u201d are so popular now, how the culture and politics of New York and San Francisco have homogenized drastically in recent decades, Jemisin\\u2019s views on why a coalition of Black and Latinx voters elected a former cop as New York\\u2019s mayor, how gentrification causes change that we may not at first recognize, where to draw the line between imposing order and celebrating the disorder of cities, how Donald Trump kept stealing Jemisin\\u2019s ideas but is at the root a \\u201cbadly written character,\\u201d whether we should hold people accountable for their choices or acknowledge the way the status quo shapes our decision-making, what excites Jemisin about recent discoveries about outer space, why she thinks we are all \\u201cmade of exploding stars\\u201d and more.\\n\\nMentioned:\\n\\nN.K. Jemisin interview on Vox\\u2019s "The Gray Area with Sean Illing"\\n\\nBook recommendations:\\n\\nFullmetal Alchemist by Hiromu Arakawa\\n\\nMechanique by Genevieve Valentine\\n\\nWitch King by Martha Wells\\n\\nThe Death and Life of Great American Cities by Jane Jacobs\\n\\nThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.\\n\\nYou can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of \\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\\u201d at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.\\n\\n\\u201cThe Ezra Klein Show\\u201d is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rog\\xe9 Karma. Our researcher is Emefa Agawu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris and Mary Marge Locker. Original music by Isaac Jones. Mixing by Jeff Geld and Sonia Herrero. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin, Kristina Samulewski and Jesse Bordwin.'