Keziah Dhamma: Making Curls Her Business
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You\'ve probably heard the adage that when a woman changes her hair, she changes her life. When Keziah Dhamma Big chopped her hair after moving from Sacramento to Los Angeles, it led to a whole new career. She went from an actress and model to a beauty entrepreneur all because she couldn\'t find what she needed for her thick, textured natural hair. Since developing her Snappee hair ties, Swirly Curl has become an ever-expanding platform that includes hair accessories, a blow dryer, and haircare products, including a hair growth serum, a book, an educational platform, and a new podcast, Hey Curlfriend. Keziah shares her personal journey, how she built her business, what she learned from trying to patent her design, why it was important for her business to evolve, and why it is important to stay true to her brand. She will also share some key tips for entrepreneurs, so stay tuned until the end!
Products mentioned in this episode: Snappee Hair Ties, Snap Scrunchies, Headbands, Adjustable Bonnet Manga Moringa Moisture Collection, and the Go Grow Curl Elixir (watch the video to see how you can get 15% off your purchase). Visit the website to shop for the products.\\xa0
\\xa0The SwirlyCurly Method Book (watch to find out how to get a free copy)\\xa0
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FULL TRANSCRIPT below:
Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 00:00
So just for entrepreneurs who are listening to this, from many conversations with our lawyer and things like that is that even though it\'s your design, if another company changes one feature about it, your patent is no longer valid. So I think the most important thing out of everything is first to market, get some market, get in stores get known, there is always going to be someone coming and knocking you off. China loves to do that. But you got to just be out there and be known and you find your customers and they will ride with you.
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CC\\xa0 00:37
Well, welcome to start right here. We\'re talking to bipod VT pros about breaking into the industry, standing out and defining success for themselves. I\'m your host, Karina COVID, our LGBT director, turned consultant, but I\'m also adept connected. What does that mean? I love linking and sharing ideas, information, and people so that we can all succeed. And I do this show because I\'m an advocate for creating an equitable, inclusive beauty industry. And this shows one way to bring you the information if you want to take a seat at the table, or build one appearance. So let\'s get into the show. Everyone\'s heard the adage. When a woman changes her hair, she changes her life. Well, today\'s guest not only changed your hair, she changed her life and her profession and became an entrepreneur. I\'m happy to welcome because I Adama who is an entrepreneur of ever expanding platforms. She is the founder of swirly curly girl College, and the author of the swirly curly method. We\'re going to hear how she came to be an entrepreneur and the career path that she\'s taken as a result. So welcome, because I am so happy to have you on the show today.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 02:00
Thank you, Karen, thank you for that introduction. That was lovely. I\'m going to have to take that and put that in my bio. And the way you said it all. Yeah, because
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CC\\xa0 02:08
you do have ever expanding platforms. And that\'s a wonderful thing.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 02:13
Yeah, thank you.
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CC\\xa0 02:15
What\'s interesting to me is that you started out as an aspiring model and actress. Tell me about following that dream.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 02:22
Yeah. So when I was a little girl, I was always watching TV. And, you know, if you were born in the 80s, you watch TV. Nowadays, kids don\'t touch TVs, because you know, it\'s not good for their brain. But I was always watching Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen movies, they were traveling, I love the Travel Channel. And I would see young, I guess you could say actresses, and I thought, You know what, that\'s something I would love to do. Because their life just seems so exciting to be able to go on a location that\'s different from their everyday life and film. And so I went to college, I would say I was under the impression like many people, you know, in the 80s 90s, even early 20s. I feel like things have changed now. But where you go to school, you graduate, you got a good job. That was kind of the path most people took. So I went to school, I got my degree in Communication Studies, and I was focusing on broadcast journalism. I wanted to be a news anchor, I wanted to do CNN. So it was kind of close to being an actress, but not really fully going there. I think, you know, I was scared a little bit. I didn\'t ever really take any classes in acting until I graduated college. And then I took a summer class in acting. So I got to LA and I was interning at new stations. And I was trying to get a job as a young journalist. And I was like, if I can get a job as a journalist, I\'m going to take it. But while I\'m out here, why don\'t I just try out acting as well. And I said, the first thing I\'m going to get if I get the job internship, or if I get an acting gig I\'m going to go with, so I ended up getting an agent. And then after five auditions on my fifth one, I booked the commercial. It was for the Oprah Winfrey Network. And it was like a picnic. And there was a couple other people there. And it was awesome. And the amount of money that I made. I mean, it wasn\'t a ton at the time. But I was like this is definitely what I need to be doing. So I\'ve ended up going along that path for many years, until I got to the point where I started my company, which was something I had never thought of doing being an entrepreneur. But that\'s really how I pursued the dream. I just kind of went around it to kind of get in versus just going straight for it. And the time that I did, it was like 10 years. I had so much fun. It was exciting. Of course there\'s ups and downs in it. You\'re not working all the time. So you have to have like a supplemental job, which I was working at a restaurant, which a lot of people do. So it was great while I did it. Yeah.
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CC\\xa0 04:44
So would you consider entrepreneurship, a destination or a detour?
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 04:48
was a really great question. I feel like entrepreneurship is a destination for me. Looking back at all the things I\'ve ever been interested in all my strongest skill set It\'s have all come out in entrepreneurship. From a young age, I was the girl that would come home from school. And I was like, Mom, this class is not challenging me enough, I need to be an honors. And my mom was like, Okay. And so I always have gone for very challenging things, I would sign up for like chemistry classes in an honors program, not even taking the foundational chemistry class, I\'m like, I can hang, I can learn this. And so entrepreneurship really does that. It brings out all your best skills, and you get to use them on a daily basis. And so I find that I\'m always creative. I\'m always doing things that bring out my best skills. And I\'m also learning new skills, and it puts you in the most uncomfortable position that you can ever be in in your entire life. And you just got to figure it out. I actually get a high from it.
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CC\\xa0 05:53
Talk to me about your upbringing. Where did you grow up? And how did that shape your ideas about beauty?
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 05:59
I grew up in Sacramento, California, I basically grew up, people say maybe like the ghetto, the hood, my mom was a single mother, I have three brothers. So there\'s four kids, we didn\'t grow up with a lot of money at all. And my youngest brother, dad was in the picture on and off for a while my dad actually ended up going back to Nigeria when my mom was pregnant with me, because He\'s the eldest son and my grandfather passed away suddenly in a car accident. So as African culture has it, if you\'re the son, you need to come back and care for the family, because my grandfather did everything for the family. So my dad went back, and he actually left when my mom and him got married, he was on adjustment status for his green card. And this is back in the 80s. And you\'re not supposed to leave when you\'re applying for your green card. And so long story short, he wasn\'t able to come back. And so my mom moved on, and she was dating my younger brothers, dad, and I have three brothers. So I was really a tomboy. I never really knew about makeup. It never really occurred to me to like, look kind of cute. I mean, as a girl, you always gravitate towards girly things, flowers and stuff like that. But hair especially was like the pain point for me. I couldn\'t do anything with my hair. I never know what to do with my hair. And my mom didn\'t know either. My mom would go a couple of weeks without combing and detangling my hair because it was such a hassle. And whenever we did it, of course, I would just cry and scream. And my mom would do her best to kind of put it in like little pigtails. And she would keep it short. So we\'re constantly cutting my hair. And I would always be so sad because I as a girl wanted longer hair because beauty of course, what we saw on TV and around me was longer straight hair. So all the girls in school who even were mixed race or black, they had straight hair for the most part. And I was the only one that really wore my hair natural. Not really by choice. It was just by like what it was I was always looking at the girl saying Mommy, please straighten my hair. Let\'s do something. And I would see that their hair was just longer and it would touch their neck and mine would maybe touch my ear or something. So Beauty for me was really the European standard of beauty.
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CC\\xa0 08:06
Right? What was the first product you ever chat or bought? Like hair product? Any kind of Prada hair skin? Lip gloss?
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 08:16
I\'m thinking like in terms of with maybe my own money or my allowance? It probably was an eyeshadow. It\'s probably like a blue eyeshadow and I just put the eyeshadow on.
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CC\\xa0 08:26
And was it an eyeshadow that worked for your skin tone?
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 08:28
Probably not. But I know I was really into eyeshadows
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CC\\xa0 08:32
that\'s great. Did you ever wear your hair straight?
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 08:35
I did. I did for a long time. So when I was about 10 years old, my mom found out about a relaxer. And I was all about it because I wanted my hair straight. So we went to Target we found the just for me box on the bottom of the shelf. And we got the strongest one we were like the maximum strength because we\'re like, this hair is so thick. It needs all the strength it needs. And so we got it, we put it in my hair. And honestly, it was like amazing. We were like wow, like I could feel my scalp. It felt like water was touching my scalp. I could comb my hair, my mom could comb it. It just became so much easier. And the only issue I realized is that after it was straight, and I looked at the box, and I was like I don\'t look like her. I don\'t look like the girl on the box. My hair was straight, but it still had a lot of volume. So it was straight with volume. And I still pulled it back. So I still did everything I did before it was just straight. So I feel like I kind of in a way got something that I wanted from it but not 100% I still felt uncomfortable with my hair. And I still felt that it wasn\'t beautiful.
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CC\\xa0 09:36
So you\'re in LA, acting. Were you talking about broadcast journalism, I\'m assuming you\'re still wearing your hair straight. When you were thinking about that. When did you decide to transition back to your natural texture?
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 09:48
Yeah, it\'s actually a funny thing. So when I moved to LA my hair was still straight and I was still doing my blowout kind of with a blow dryer and straightening it and I got pictures down to try to get an agent with straight hair. and nobody would take me. I was like, overlooked and I was like, Huh. And I didn\'t necessarily decide to big chop and then go get an agent, I just could not do my hair in LA anymore. The water is a lot harsher in LA than it is in Sacramento. And so my hair was just puffing up and I was already in a transition. And I was growing up my natural texture. And there was one day like my hair literally broke off in the shower. They call it the demarcation line between the natural hair and the straight hair. And just chunks were breaking off. And I was like, I can\'t even pull my hair back. I can\'t hide this anymore. So I ended up just big chopping it myself at home. And I went to my job and everybody was like what happened to you? Because I one day had straight hair. And the next day I had a short curly afro. Well, I mean, it wasn\'t even really curly. It was just really like an afro, and I started rocking it like that.
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CC\\xa0 10:54
Once it started to go out and you wanted to pull your hair back. What problem did you encounter?
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 10:59
Well, I\'ve encountered a lot of problems. Well, one, I just couldn\'t pull it back because it was just so short. And you know, natural texture. Because of the curl and the pattern, it shrinks up a lot, so I couldn\'t really get it back. I also couldn\'t find any hair accessories like a hair tie, or scrunchies that would actually fit around the thickness of my hair. And that was really frustrating. So what I had to actually do is I had to stretch my hair, kind of make it straight just to get it pulled back, which is what I was trying to avoid the whole time. I\'m like, I\'m embracing my natural curls. I really want to put my natural hair back and I was struggling. And in fact through that struggle was the reason why I created our first product, which is the snappy hair tie. Okay, so
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CC\\xa0 11:43
when you created this, you told me June on it sticky.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 11:48
Yeah, I did, actually. So there was one day I was going out for auditions. And in the meantime, I decided I wanted to go to the gym, do a workout. And I had to stretch my hair to put it back in a hair tie. And I had just one elastic hair tie left and I tried to put it in my hair and it just broke flew across the room. And I was so frustrated. And I was like I really wish I had something that just would snap on and snap off and fit the thickness of my hair. And then it was like boom, that IDI just came to me, which was a sappy hair tie. I just grabbed one of those yellow posted and I just sketched it and I said hair tie snaps on snaps off. And I forgot all about it. It was on my desk and like six months later, my brother who\'s actually a famous Barber, he\'s called chukar, the rich barber. He had started his business. And he started his online portion where he was selling products that he created for barbers. And he\'s solid. He\'s like, what\'s that posted? That idea on your desk? And I was like, Oh, it was all dusty. And I was like, Oh, it\'s a hair tie and snap on snap off. And I was all excited. And he\'s like looking at you. He\'s like, you\'re really excited about that. He\'s like, You should make it and sell it. And I was like no way. I was like, I don\'t even know the first thing about business. And I\'m just focused on acting like that\'s where I\'m at. And he\'s like, see if it\'s patent if it\'s not that and try to get a patent. And maybe you\'ll do it later. So I was like, okay, and a year goes by I\'m doing the same thing. I\'m modeling, acting, working at a restaurant. And I thought, You know what, I have some extra time. Why don\'t I try to make that idea. And so I actually went for it. Walk me
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CC\\xa0 13:16
through the process of making your first one. What was the trial and error? Like? Do you remember how many trials how many iterations you had? Do you get the right one?
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 13:25
Yeah, so in terms of a prototype, it took me about three times to get a prototype together. But in terms of mass producing it, that\'s where the hard part came because I had this prototype that I pretty much just got some fabric, I was like it needs to be stretchy. I also had got other hair ties on the market. And I was cutting them open to see what they were made out of. And a lot of them had elastic in it, which was fine. But what I noticed is the elastic was breaking my hair off. So with regular elastic hair ties, when they stretch, the fabric kind of opens. And then when you let go, they will snap back and they snap whatever hairs right there. And that\'s where your hair gets pulled out. And so I was like I want to eliminate elastic in it and just use a fabric. So I found a stretchy fabric. And then I was like I need to find something that snaps on. So there was various different snaps and I started trying them and I was like well, I can\'t do a metal snap. People don\'t want that in their hair, you know and started having to do that. But that part was pretty easy because I could just go to Joanne\'s and find stuff. And honestly, I\'m a pretty crafty person I\'m really hands on. I used to love origami paper mache. Like I would do all kinds of vision boards and just give me something and I can put it together. But now when it came to actually mass producing it, it was finding where can I actually get this fabric at a better quality and where can I get this made? So I was actually making half of it by hand. For the first two and a half, three years. I literally had a snap machine in my studio apartment in Hollywood. And I would come home for auditions and I would pull everything out and I was like ah arts and crafts and I was cutting I was snapping it, packaging it shipping it out customer service. Like literally I was everything.
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CC\\xa0 15:07
So your model actress, talk to me about what you learned doing that work that you apply to your business as an entrepreneur?
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 15:15
That\'s a great question. I would say some of the biggest things, it\'s been easy for me to transition to being on camera, because with acting, you\'re doing so much uncomfortable on camera work, you\'re auditioning, you\'re repeating remembering things. So I\'ve just kind of like taken out in my mind, that kind of nervousness of being on camera. I\'m always on the spot. And as an entrepreneur, you are people are asking you questions, just day in and day out. So that was kind of an easy transition. Although growing up, I was really shy girl, I would literally like tear up when I would get called on at school and I had to speak. So I was always avoiding it, which is really funny that I\'m actually really in it now. You know. And if you get me talking, I can\'t stop talking. And then the other thing I\'ll say is that I really understand business from a business standpoint. So let me say that before, when I was acting, I was just like the actress, I was only one portion of the whole process. And I in a way thought everything was about me, I didn\'t realize that there\'s so much more going on on the other side. So I just have so much more compassion for business owners, people just like I can see the multi layer of everything. And I think that really helps when it comes to just operating a business and communicating and working with other people. And then also, of course, whenever we\'re doing campaigns ourselves, like hiring models and stuff. I know how to set all that up, because that\'s what I did for a long time.
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CC\\xa0 16:45
Tell me how you found your first customers? Did people see you wearing it and say, what is that? I want one.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 16:51
So my first customer was my brother. And he ordered online, just make sure the website was working and everything. And then I started reaching out to influencers, YouTubers, people basically on YouTube, because I knew that when I was looking for hair products for my natural hair I was on YouTube looking for. And so I watched a lot of these girls, and I asked them like, Hey, can I send you some product? Let me know what you think. And if you like it, will you do a video and that\'s how it started to roll is they would do a video and then they would have a coupon code they can share and give a discount to people. And then customers were coming in through there. So that\'s how it first started. And then yes, right after that, I started going to expos I was like I need to get in front of people. I need to go to hair expos beauty expos. And so we actually did the essence festival for three years in a row. But this was much later down the line. It wasn\'t right out the gates because the essence festival, it\'s really big. And it can be really pricey to do the whole thing. But local ones, we were in Atlanta, all sorts. And so that\'s how I started to do that as well. And then people would find us on Instagram and everything. So not that it was easy back in the day. Not at all. But it was different. You could definitely reach out to somebody, it was just all more organic. And you could get customers that way. So it was as long as we were pushing that out. We were getting customers. As long as we were having some type of social presence people were coming in.
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CC\\xa0 18:16
Are you still doing stuff in your apartment? Or did you move to mass production.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 18:21
It took me about three years before I finally gave it up. I was like I can\'t give it up. I wanted to and I also wanted to make sure that everything was good. But yeah, I was looking for a long time to make the hair assessories in the US. And everything was so expensive that I eventually had to outsource overseas. So that whole process took about a year from like start to finish to try and out people and getting it up and running. But ever since we\'ve done that it\'s been actually really good thing because now obviously we can scale we can sell a lot more. We\'re always in stock and things like that.
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CC\\xa0 18:54
So you started with this nappy, how many skews do you have now
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 18:57
we have over 30 skews of all kinds of products so we have the snappy hair ties and current I\'m so sorry. I\'m like I need to be sending you some products. So we will be doing that. You can dry them out and everything. Especially for your beautiful dreads. The scrunchies are gonna be amazing. Yeah, we have our snap hair ties we have our snap scrunchies so it\'s a scrunchie version of the snap feature where it snaps on and off. Great for dreadlocks people absolutely love them because here\'s the thing is you don\'t have to pull your dreadlocks through. You can just snap it around, snap it on and then snap it off. And people absolutely love it. And it\'s the same thing with our regular hair. We also have our adjustable headbands. And these have three different settings. So small, medium, large, because everybody has a different head size. And I find that headbands I used to get would just slip off my head. And so you can adjust it per size and people love that as well for dreads. And then we came up with our adjustable nighttime bonnet because me and my friends used to complain that we\'d wake up and we\'re like, where\'s our bonnet? We\'re looking all over for it. Like never even made it through the night. And I was like, How is this supposed to protect my hair. So I went on a mission to make sure that it stayed on the hair, it was comfortable. And again, everybody has a different head size or preference. So it\'s adjustable as well. So it has small, medium, large settings. And then after those hair accessories, we came up with some hair jewelry. And then we moved into our liquid product line, which is our shampoo, conditioner, styling cream and gel. Then we came out with a hairdryer. And then Recently we launched go grow hair growth elixir, which has been really great. And it\'s an all natural Elixir.
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CC\\xa0 20:36
Okay, so I want to come back to the elixir. You started out with a company in a product called snappy, but your transition to swirly curly, tell me about when that happened. And why you decided to do that.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 20:49
We transition to swirly curly from snappy, mainly because when we were trying to get the trademark, somebody had a trademark in the same category as hair assessories. And we really didn\'t want to have any confusion. They basically came back and said, like, Hey, you can still go for this. But there may be confusion and it could probably cost a lot more money to try to make sure we got that trademark. And so by sat within and thought about it, I was like you know what, what if we come up with a name that really encompasses more of a like holistic brand, and talks about textures and curls, and that\'s when we came up with squirrely curly, and then we still kept snappy as the product line. But we just have to really curly as the overarching brand name.
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CC\\xa0 21:31
Now, did you ever patent snappy,
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 21:34
we tried really hard. And in fact, we spent a lot of money trying to patent it. And the reason we weren\'t able to patent it was something really small. So I don\'t know if you\'ve ever been through the process. Have you heard people that have been through the process.
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CC\\xa0 21:47
I\'ve had some guests who have had patents, yeah,
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 21:49
we filed a patent pending. And we did change some of the features on it very small, changing of the features. And when we filed and we told them, we changed the features, they said the features that were changed were not enough, because there was a window when you file the patent pending to filing the patent and, and you must have some changes in between there in order to be able to file. And so they basically said the changes were not enough. And so we tried and we took it to the next level. And we tried and they would just wouldn\'t give it to us. And so we just decided like, okay, that\'s fine, we\'re going to just move on. And we\'re just going to focus on our strong branding for the product, so that people know us as the original snappy hair tie. And that\'s where we really left it, it was a design patent anyways. So just for entrepreneurs who are listening to this, from many conversations with our lawyer and things like that is that even though it\'s your design, if another company changes one feature about it, your patent is no longer valid. So I think the most important thing out of everything is first to market, get to market, get in stores get known, there is always going to be someone coming and knocking you off. China loves to do that. But you got to just be out there and be known and you find your customers and they will ride with you. And you just can\'t worry about everybody out. So Ross, you\'re always worried. And so that\'s something we can talk about a little later. Because when it comes to business, if you\'re focusing on everyone else, then you\'re not staying true to yourself. And people who really succeed are the ones who create and not compete.
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CC\\xa0 23:22
That\'s amazing. That is so smart. Create not compete. So the question becomes what do you focus on? I also like what you brought up about patents. So once your patent is filed, people can look at your design. But if you have a trade secret, that\'s yours, it\'s yours. You don\'t have to share that with anybody if it\'s a trade secret. And that\'s yours for as long as you want to keep it.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 23:45
Yeah, definitely your distribution model.
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CC\\xa0 23:48
How were you selling it was a direct to consumer.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 23:52
Yeah, we\'ve pretty much always been direct to consumer straight off the website, at hair expos. We\'re on Amazon as well and walmart.com. And then recently, over the couple past two years, we\'ve been getting into some smaller beauty supply stores. And this year, we really feel like we\'re ready for retail. So that\'s what we\'re approaching this year. We\'re like, starting to get everything lined up or re I guess you can say rebranding some of the packaging. We\'ve went through so many rebrands and there was many times we\'re like, we\'re ready for retail. We\'re ready for retail. And then we have the conversations with possible companies that can help us and we\'re like, oh, we\'re not ready yet. Because you know, it\'s a big beast. And so we wanted to make sure that we had everything down. And now we\'re ready. Yeah,
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CC\\xa0 24:35
it is really, really a big beast if you like what you hear, why don\'t you subscribe to this dirt right here podcast and leave a review. And please sign up for our mailing list at the beauty roundtable.com So you will be in the know about all the good things coming up. Let\'s now talk about the swirly curly method. How did she come up with it? And what is it,
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 25:05
so the swirly curly method and also the book this really curly method, the easy step by step guide to getting you the curls that you love. It\'s a method that is simplified, effective, and is going to get you beautiful natural hair, and less time and effort. So I found during my journey and a lot of my customers, friends, family, all of that when it came to natural hair, it was like, Oh, my God, it takes too long. What products do I use, oh, I put this product, this product and this product, were people sitting at home and making these home made dy eyes and I did all of that as well. And I just never got the results I was looking for. And I was really on a mission to figure it out. I was like, I really want to embrace my curls. And I know that it can be easy. And I know that I can just do it with less time and effort. So this really curly method is that. And throughout my experience of over 13 years, I also interviewed some of the top celebrity hairstylist like Vernon Francoise, Shai, the curl doctor and I even flew out to naturally curly headquarters, I got really serious about like my education on hair. Because before it was always like, try this product, try this other product and going on YouTube and watching videos. But I never invested in like my true education like from experts. Or you could even say mentors, and once I did that everything started to fall together. And it really confirmed some of the stuff I thought I knew about hair. So swirly curly method is four simple principles. And they go like this. First is cleansing. So you want to cleanse your hair every seven days, you don\'t want to pre poo on seven days, you don\'t want to co wash you are cleansing your hair every seven days with a cleansing shampoo, then you move on your conditioning. And this is where people get confused because they\'re like, Oh my God, my hair is so dry, I need to decondition and they will put a deep conditioner in, they\'ll sit under the dryer or keep it on all night long, two or three days, or they may never wash it out of their hair. And I used to do that too. That\'s why I\'m laughing. And I\'m like, why is my hair looks great. It was soft, but then it was straight. And then maybe in two or three weeks, my hair all sudden just would be stringy. And I\'m like what\'s going on, I use the same deep conditioner, and it was me over conditioning my hair and not rinsing it out. And then by then I would switch products but you don\'t have to. The issue is is that we\'re over conditioning our hair, we\'re using it too much. And you actually want to only deep condition your hair once a month. That\'s when you know your hair is healthy. If you\'re not there yet, I recommend starting on bi weekly, do we conditioner, and then a deep conditioner, conditioner, deep conditioner and going like that, then the next step is the styling process. But it\'s how do you add your styling products to your hair. There\'s so much out there, there\'s curl creams, there\'s mooses, you\'re like confused, you don\'t know you\'re adding like four or five products on your hair. The minimum that you need to add is a styling cream or it can be a leaving conditioner and a gel or mousse. Now people are like what about the oil? What about the butter? I do not recommend these. And here\'s why is that they actually dry your hair out instead of hydrated. When people talk about oh, they seal in the moisture, but they seal in the moisture and they seal out the moisture at the same time. So throughout the week, if you\'re adding any more water on your hair, any additional product, it\'s not actually getting in and your hair is just dry in the inside. So when people transition to a styling cream in a gel, they see significant major results. They\'re like Oh my God, my hair\'s curly, and like, oh my god, it\'s still soft, and the moisture is there. And of course there\'s different gels on the market. So you want more of a moisturizing gel. But there\'s that styling portion of how you have the products. And then the fourth one is protection. How are you protecting your hair, not only just at night, throughout the week and everything like that, but also, I give tips and the method of how to prepare your hair at night so that it\'s ready for the morning. So it literally takes you five minutes to refresh style and be out the door.
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CC\\xa0 28:53
And that\'s so critically important because people who wear their hair curly, especially if you do a twist out or a braid out or bantu knots. There\'s that moment where it looks just like fantastic. And then you look in the mirror and say, what happened? What happened? So how do consumers respond to the book into the product and the method
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 29:16
so the people who find out about this really curly method, and we have the product line to go with it which is our mango Moringa moisture max line. They absolutely love it. They\'re so elated. They\'re so excited. They\'re like oh my God finally something that works for my hair. And the way we really developed it was I took in all the things that I knew I took and all the things that customers myself friends had complained about and it was like okay, we want a shampoo that\'s not going to strip out all our natural oils and make our hair feel dry but cleansing. So it\'s a botanical cleansing shampoo that we made for the line and then the conditioner, you know it has to have slip it has to be thick enough so you can detangle your hair and then the styling cream has to be thick and easy to apply dries quick So you\'re not waiting all day for your hair to dry. And then the same thing with the gel. People don\'t want it flaky, crunchy sticking and all of that. And their hair curling hard and shrinking up, the shell actually helps to elongate and do all the things that gels do without all the downfalls of it. And so when people find out about the book and the method, they\'re like, Finally something to guide me in a way where I can get results, and they feel like, they just have a path now versus maybe going online and doing their own research and just trying to just figure it out. And that\'s what we\'ve all done for so many years. There\'s a few other methods out there. There\'s like the curly girl method and stuff like that. But the people that find this really curly method, they love it, because it\'s for natural hair. The other ones are for curly hair, which it\'s the same and also different. So people who find mine that has natural hair, more Afro textured hair, they absolutely love it.
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CC\\xa0 30:51
That\'s great. I want to hear about this growth. 00 Yes.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 30:54
So the story about the grocer is that, of course, people are like moisturizing hair, thank you, bye, girl, I need some help with hair growth. And I\'m like, I don\'t really know about hair growth, like that is a different beast. And people have a lot of issues with hair growth, because it can be internal, external age, race, all that stuff. And so I had been doing research, and I would recommend what I could recommend. But then I actually found a black female trichology, who actually focuses on scalp so she learns about hair loss and hair growth. And so she and I had been talking for pretty much the last year and discussing coming up with a hair growth serum. And I was like, Can you help me make something because basically, in her textbook, she wanted to go all natural when it came to a hair growth serum. And there\'s a lot of oils on the market. And she realized that there was a couple of key ingredients that actually make hair grow, that she just found in her textbook when she was doing the research. And so she started to make the product. And she started to try it on her hair because she actually had hair loss herself. And that\'s what got her into being a tri ecologist, because she\'s like, I\'m gonna figure this out. She was an extension girl, you know, the glue on extensions. And that\'s how she lost her hair. So she and I\'ve been talking and she had made something and I was like, Can you help me make something for my community. And so we did. And we launched it. And she\'s actually in Canada, and everything\'s all handmade. So she\'s been making it and we have been selling out like so fast, and people have had to wait a long time. So we\'ve transitioned to making it here in the US. And so it\'s getting sorted faster now. But long story short, is that me and Angela, we work together. She\'s a black female psychologist, she understands black hair, and scalp and women who have issues that have melanin skin, or who are African American, and how they affect us. And so the serum is for our hair and our scalp. And some of the key ingredients is the rapid grow tea that we have in it and our key and curls that we put in it. Those are the two key ingredients that really help to stimulate the growth.
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CC\\xa0 33:01
So folks, just so you know, we\'re gonna have a link to the book to the Corollas as well Akali method and all the products in the show notes. So never fear, you\'ll get the information. Yeah,
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 33:11
and I have a special gift for everybody. So we\'ll stay till the end, and we\'ll tell them what the gift is.
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CC\\xa0 33:16
Let\'s talk about Carl college have that come about? So curl
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 33:19
college is our online community. It\'s basically an educational platform where you get video tutorials on how to care for your natural hair. So how to get beautiful curls and less time and effort. And I\'m the main instructor. It\'s over 50 videos on wash day, this really curly methods in there, we talk about how to get moisture to your hair. That\'s probably one of my favorite courses is the maximum moisture masterclass, because it really works. I mean, everything works. But like this one, when people do it, they\'re like, oh my god, they see the results. We talk about hair grow secrets and stuff like that. So it\'s all in there. And it\'s all self study paced videos. And it\'s a course and at the end, you pretty much graduate and you will be sufficient and doing your own hair. There\'s also the community aspect where we all get together, we have bi weekly live calls. We actually have one tonight, and girls come on in if they have issues with their hair, and they need help and support. We\'ll talk about frizz, we\'ll talk about styling the curls. And we\'ll get on and we\'ll discuss it and we\'ll go through how to combat some of the roadblocks that people are having. But curl curl is really just came out of you know, our customers are like, how do I sell my hair like this? How do I do this? And so I would be writing them and we would send them emails and blogs, but it was just not enough. So we created the community of curl college. I love that.
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CC\\xa0 34:39
And you got one more thing coming now. So you\'re going to be doing a podcast. Tell us about it.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 34:44
Yeah, so we actually just launched our very own podcast. It\'s called the Hey Girlfriend podcast. I\'m your host because I Adama and we decided that we have presence on YouTube. We have presence on Instagram. We\'re on Twitter and all the other things but we hadn\'t dived into podcast and we find a lot of our community hangs out there. And we really wanted to also bring on other experts in the industry. And we wanted to highlight other women\'s natural hair journeys because we learn through other people\'s experiences, conversations. And I thought it would be really, really wonderful to have other people with other textures, share their experience and share what they found to work for them. Because a lot of times people are hearing from me, but somebody may have a different texture. And I think that\'s so important. And then of course, we\'re going to highlight black owned businesses, other people who are doing great things in the community, as well. So I\'m so excited. And Korean has already said yes to coming on the podcast.
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CC\\xa0 35:43
Yeah, I can\'t wait. I\'m so excited. Like I said at the beginning, because I is in charge of an ever expanding platform, I really think it\'s important to talk about doing hard things, because we don\'t talk enough about failure. We don\'t talk enough about things that are hard and getting good. What is the toughest challenge you faced thus far?
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 36:04
That\'s a great question. There\'s been quite a few toughest challenges. But I would say I\'m torn between two, I\'m gonna share both. The first one is working with my husband, we work together in the business. And we have since the second year of business. And that\'s been challenging, because at times, or a lot of times, I\'m focused on business, and I\'m in my work mode, and he\'s still thinking I\'m his wife at the moment, and not that we aren\'t married. It\'s just a different type of communication. And so it\'s been challenging, and we\'re both like two CEOs, we have the same vision, but different ways about getting there. And because we\'re both still strong personalities, that has been challenging, he has really great ideas. And I have really great ideas. And I will say after six years of working together, we really have found how to work together and we kind of stay in our lanes, we stay in our lanes, and we support each other. And we give each other things that complement our skill set. And that has been really working for us. And so that\'s been challenging. And then the other challenging thing is staying true to ourselves, we see things that other people are doing or other brands that may be considered competitors. And it\'s like, oh my god, we should be doing that too. Or let\'s do that, or Oh, that was our idea we were going to do this. And it was like staying true to ourselves and focusing on our plan, and our uniqueness. And I find that\'s hard for anyone to do. I spend time researching brands and seeing trends and stuff, especially online and online marketing. And it\'s so easy to hop on the train that everybody\'s on, just because it\'s a train and a trend. And trains and trends, they come in they go. So we try to focus on the things that are going to stay and we tried to just quiet out the noise because we do create content. So we\'re there we\'re looking at stuff and focus on ourselves. So I would say that\'s been a real true challenge is that staying true to ourselves? Because we\'ve made moves that weren\'t necessarily true to ourselves, and then you pay for them. You get on the train, and you\'re like, Man, you sound pillowcases ain\'t selling that well. They\'re like, alright, let\'s not do that. Yeah,
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CC\\xa0 38:09
this applies to personnel, but also in terms of trends. Shiny Penny syndrome, shiny Penny syndrome, to me is, oh, it just looks so pretty. Everybody\'s doing it. And you know, you fall in love with this idea or a person or whatever. When you look below the surface, it\'s kind of like not really what you want it as an employee or as an idea in your business. And we often get distracted by those ideas, those shiny pennies, because
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 38:39
it looks so pretty. Yeah, totally. One thing I want to say to that is I forgot where I read this or somebody has said this is like the most wealthy most successful people are not in the limelight, they\'re not in the spotlight. And not saying that the people that are aren\'t, but if it\'s in your face, and there\'s a fear of FOMO like I need to be a part of this, it\'s probably not the best choice to do. And it\'s probably not the thing that\'s really going to make you the most money or success or whatever. And that\'s what I\'ve also learned is like, you know what, just quiet down, listen to the inside voice and focus on that.
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CC\\xa0 39:12
Alright, finally, can you offer our listeners five tips on evolving a brand or platform.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 39:19
One is talk and listen to your customers. Now your customers are going to say a lot of different things. You don\'t have to do everything but you should be talking and listening to them and reading their feedback every single week. That\'s how you\'re going to know what\'s going to sell what\'s going to grow, where you need to go because it\'s really funny people will start a brand and they think that their customers are one type of people, but you may attract somebody else. So it\'s really important to know who you\'re attracting. Because when we started we\'re attracted younger in their 20s type of women and now our clients customers are actually 3540 plus the second tip about evolving and everything is just knowing that you do have to evolve, the brand is always growing. If you\'re not growing, it\'s dying. So expect to evolve, expect to change, expect to create new things to expand, and you just have to have that mindset. I didn\'t, when I started, I was like, I\'m making these hair ties, and they\'re gonna be store and I\'m gonna do this forever. And I didn\'t realize no, I have to create new things. So definitely have that expectation and just be looking for the next step that you\'re gonna take. It\'s a journey. It\'s like a child. And then the third tip about growing a brand, I would say, be mindful of your brand, Dean, I\'ve experienced just putting things out and just trying it out without having the proper branding on it. And then something takes off, and you\'re like, Oh, my God, this isn\'t the right color. This isn\'t the right branding. And it\'s really important so that you have a strong brand, presence online, because everything\'s kept online nowadays. So when people find you, and then they click on your website, and maybe the branding has changed, they might feel a little uncomfortable purchasing it. So I just think that\'s really important to just make sure your branding is intact. And then the fourth one is really get a mentor, somebody who has done what you\'re trying to do before and follow in their footsteps, but still making your own because there\'s a lot of things that somebody has already been through where they can share with you how to overcome it, or how to go around it, or whatever it is. So take it on. But of course make it your own. Yeah, and the fifth one I touched on this before is really just staying true to yourself and staying true to your brand, there\'s going to be a lot of things that come up a lot of outside input on your brand. And you really just got to quiet that noise down and focus on what\'s best for you and the company. Because also at the end of the day, you\'ve got to remember that companies aren\'t this thing in the air companies are people. So you are your company. And everybody can say what you should be doing. But that might not work for you, your lifestyle, your life plans and stuff like that. Like I had a lot of people telling me to do a lot of things when I was pregnant, and I have three kids now. And I\'m like, that\'s not the time for me to do it. I can do it in a different season of my life. So it\'s really important to focus on you. And with that said, is that you create your brand and your lifestyle. So just make sure that you know that.
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CC\\xa0 42:16
I love that you create your brand and your lifestyle. So you\'re driving the ship, don\'t let the ship drive you. Yes, exactly. And I think that\'s hard for entrepreneurs to accept. Because when you work for yourself, it\'s the grind.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 42:29
Yeah, and we can be so reactive to everything happening. Yeah,
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42:33
tell people, your social channels so they can follow you. So if
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 42:37
you guys want to visit the swirly curly website store where we have all of our products, it\'s swirly Curly haired.com. And I actually have a free gift for you, which is 15% off of any products that you guys may want. You just have to use the code podcast 15 and get 15% off, I have a second free gift is that we\'re giving away free books of the swirly curly method. So these are free physical books, all you have to do is pay for shipping and handling, which is just about $10. And we\'ll ship out the book to you. And you can go ahead and get that book at the swirly Curly method.com. And then on terms of social media, we\'re on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, we put out weekly videos on YouTube, our podcast is going to be on the YouTube and that\'s just at swirly curly hair. And then if you want to say hi to me personally and see my three children that I pretty much only post on Instagram my whole page is just like children\'s stuff. I mean, there\'s a little bit of hair stuff on there. I\'m getting back into it, but it\'s just at because I Adama and then the same thing at Facebook is because I Adama as well.
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CC\\xa0 43:36
Wonderful. Well Casaya I can\'t thank you enough for being on the show today. It\'s been wonderful chatting with you.
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Keziah Dhamma\\xa0 43:43
Same same criticism. So much fun. Thank you.
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Cee Cee Corbett\\xa0 43:45
That\'s all for today. Follow us at start underscore right underscore here underscore podcast on Instagram, and
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