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b'As a customer you\'ve probably already experienced that most services don\'t fail because of bad intentions. Often services fail because they run on top of systems that don\'t support a different outcome.\\n\\nThe classics "The computer says..." statement is just one of the many example.\\n\\nThis isn\'t just a major frustration for us as ordinary customers but also for us as professionals trying to make things better.\\n\\nLet me ask you a question: How often have you been in a project where you had the mandate and budget to address these deeper systemic issues To my experience this almost never happens.\\n\\nSo we keep working on projects with a limited scope that only have a chance of delivering a temporary fix at best.\\n\\nIf you really want to address the bigger challenges in our organisations (and society) you have to shift your thinking from programs and projects to a more systemic mindset.\\n\\nYou need to work on changing the underlaying and supporting structures. Which is by no means is an easy thing to do.\\n\\nSomeone who has been pioneering this field for the last decade is\\xa0Penny Hagen.\\n\\nIn this weeks episode Penny shares the lessons she learned around: \\n\\nHow to budget for systemic change? \\n\\nHow to measure progress?\\n\\nAnd how to keep people motivated when they don\'t see tangible change right away?\\n\\nI feel that this episode is especially valuable if your work currently has narrow scope and you feel like you\'re not getting the opportunity to address the root causes of challenges.\\n\\nAfter listening the conversation with Penny you\'ll definitely have some ideas about how you can start making impact on a more fundamental level through your work.\\n\\n--- [ GUIDE ] -\\u2014\\n\\n00:00 Welcome to episode 106\\n02:45 Who is Penny\\n04:20 60 second question round\\n06:40 Adopting a more systemic and holistic view\\n12:50 Are we brave enough?\\n14:20 What we track is what we value\\n17:30 Helping people to see the value of our work\\n26:00 Showing results on different levels\\n30:45 We have to look inward for solutions\\n38:10 Don\'t keep it open\\n43:05 Did you make change\\n44:20 Nothing is out of scope\\n47:50 Scaling isn\'t about the what\\n50:20 Ways of working for complex challenges\\n52:50 Get in touch with Penny\\n53:35 Final thoughts\\n\\n--- [ LINKS ] ---\\n\\n* http://twitter.com/pennyhagen\\n* https://twitter.com/codesignlab_akl\\n* https://www.linkedin.com/in/pennyhagen/\\n\\n--- [ MORE ] ---\\n\\nEnjoyed the show? Take a look at some of the other episodes.\\nhttps://go.servicedesignshow.com/spotify\\n\\nYOUTUBE\\nEvery episode of the Service Design Show is also available as via the official YouTube channel.\\nhttps://go.servicedesignshow.com/youtube\\n\\nINSTAGRAM\\nGet an exclusive behind the scenes look of the Show.\\nhttps://go.servicedesignshow.com/instagram\\n\\n--- [ FREE COURSE ] ---\\n\\nHOW TO EXPLAIN SERVICE DESIGN\\nLearn what it takes to get your clients, colleagues, managers, CEOs and even grandmas as excited about service design as you are!\\nhttps://servicedesignshow.com/free-course'