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K Sera asks if it is obvious that there should be kid free zones. Micah disagrees. Phil rants about the economy and taxes.

Show Notes:

Daycare costs- NPR

In May 2021, NPR reports lowest birth level since 1979: No Baby Boom

Less people want children; Pope blames pets

Families are in distress after the first month without the expanded child tax credit- Jan 2022

K Sera’s afterthoughts:

- While I agree with Phil, that there are absolutely systematic problems that make being a parent in the US incredibly difficult, you still have to live in reality. Work with what you have and do what you need to do to try and make your family’s situation better. Do this in life! Vote in your family’s best interest! Go out to eat with your children to give them important and fun social experiences! That sometimes means retreating. Recognize that it’s okay to fail sometimes. You can try again. You can work at improving things in the future little by little.

- I have empathy for parents. I really do. Sometimes you’re stuck in a plane and the kid is experiencing some painful air pressure changes and they cry because they’re hurting and scared. That’s UNDERSTANDABLE. It’s a sucky situation and your only option is to endure it. But wouldn't you, as a loving parent, want to take your kid out of this clearly terrible experience? And if I had the money and the flight option was available, I would 100% pay more to be on a child free flight. Swear to god, though, if some 30 year-old Karen decides to have a tantrum and regresses to the maturity of a 3 year-old, I cannot be held responsible for what I may do. At least a child has the excuse of being a child!

- I don’t think I’m wrong to ask parents to parent. If your child is having a melt down, your strategy shouldn’t be to ignore them when you are in public. Sure, if your child is acting out because they are being a little shit and want attention, then ignoring them might be a reasonable strategy… but NOT at a restaurant. Or a movie theater! At home, sure. Maybe even in the toy aisle at a department store, though I’d probably still grab my child and take them home rather than let them continue to make a scene. We can get a toy another time when they are ready to behave. 

- Ultimately, I get that it’s situational and every kid is different. Sure. But I don’t think it’s reasonable to ask 30 or more people who are trying to enjoy their evening to “suffer in solidarity” for a choice someone else made when the parent can and should come up with a strategy for dealing with their child having a tantrum for more than 5 minutes. And you can’t convince me that “if only the government and society would help more” this situation wouldn’t happen. I’m not buying that. 

- Parenting is HARD. Parenting comes with responsibilities. You try your best to teach your kids how to be successful adults and how to behave in society. If you have a child with special needs, you still have responsibilities. And if that means removing them from a stressful situation, you DO that. I’m not expecting perfection, but a demand for empathy goes both ways. You don’t get to force other people to suffer because you are suffering. That’s a terrible way to try and improve your situation and should be a last resort kind of strategy. 

- Micah is the most annoying devil’s advocate. Putting words in my mouth AND talking over me. Ugh! I just want to be able to enjoy an evening out once in a while without a child (or man-child) throwing a fit for half of it, thanks.

Phil’s afterthoughts:

-For the record, I agree with K Sera. Parents that bring their children and do not try to raise them to be good adults is a big problem in society at large. I am no saint in this regard either, and I have empathy and compassion for the parents that are just trying to do their best to raise their children right. I can see how melt downs and temper tantrums can lessen (and perhaps ruin) the experience for others. Hell, this happened just a few days ago prior to the publishing of this episode (originally recorded in the early new year of 2021, published in 24-JAN-2022). We do try our best to limit the impact these negative events have on others, but like I said before: it is hard.

-To K Sera’s point above (on the fact that she does not find my argument compelling that the Government’s doesn’t do anything to help, and if they would actually get off their arse to help us these would improve the situation), I know that personally it would help me and the parents of families that I interact with on a daily basis. Relieving the stress and burden of navigating this chaotic world while raising kids, even a little bit, would certainly help the situation of having a stable family and a more supportive way of having a strong routine (which children crave). I agree with K Sera (again) that it wouldn’t solve the issue every time it pops up, but I will assert my claim that it would definitely be a step in the right direction.

-I always wanted to have the American Dream ™ when I was young. Funnily enough I didn’t know what that was back then, and I sure as hell don’t know what that is now. As I get older, I succumb to the fact that the American Dream is just a fuzzy feeling. I am sure it was actually something very real and concrete back in the day, but as the middle-class prosperity waned the dream unfortunately devolved to un-measureable emotions and platitudes. Still, having a family and children was part of my nebulous dream and I once again prove that I am one of those lucky jerks that keep getting unjust windfalls in life. So please heed my words: for those that are child-free by choice, please understand that while we (the parents) may envy many parts of your lives, very few things can replace my sense of joy when my children run around the house trying to take my socks off my while making “mmeeeehhhh!” noises as they pretend to be hungry goats. So while we complain about meltdowns and temper tantrums, what makes us smile is either too personal to explain or too intellectually obvious to explain. Thus, I would like to apologize on the behalf of all parents that have had children meltdown in front of others. You only get to experience an impact of the worse parts without the benefits of the best parts. Of course, I have no idea what will happen when they get older and become teenagers. This frightens me.