Week in Review: March 19, 2021
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Today on the show co-host Michael Charles of Upper Left Strategies joins Crystal to go over news of the week, including the need to confront hate and bigotry against our Asian neighbors experienceing racist violence, why it matters when white journalists write inaccurately (and misspell the names of) women of color, the continued marginalization of political consultants of color, and new developments in the Seattle mayoral race.
As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com.
Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii and find today\\u2019s co-host, Michael Charles, at @mikeychuck. More info is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.
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Articles Referenced:
Read the article in which a Seattle reporter continues to misspell the name of Hamdi Mohamad here: https://www.postalley.org/2021/03/15/port-elections-changing-dynamics-for-getting-elected/
Get to know more about the Political Consultants of Color Coalition here: https://www.pccc-wa.com/press\\xa0
See Crystal\\u2019s tweet about a campaign worker of color not being paid for work they\\u2019ve done for a Seattle mayoral candidate: https://twitter.com/finchfrii/status/1372750551952150530\\xa0
Read about Bruce Harrell\\u2019s announcement of running for mayor, including his requirement that officers watch the video of George Floyd\\u2019s death, here: https://www.theurbanist.org/2021/03/16/bruce-harrell-stakes-claim-to-center-lane-in-seattle-mayoral-announcement/\\xa0
Learn more about the Washington Campaign Workers Collective here: https://www.washingtoncwc.com/\\xa0
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Transcript:
Crystal Fincher: [00:00:00] Welcome to Hacks and Wonks. I\'m your host, Crystal Fincher. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy through the lens of those doing the work with behind the scenes perspectives on politics in our state. Full transcripts, resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Today, we\'re continuing our Friday almost live shows where we review the news of the week with a cohost. Welcome back to the program friend of the show and today\'s co-host, political consultant and managing partner of Upper Left Strategies. Michael Charles.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:00:46] Thanks Crystal. Happy to be here again. As always.
Crystal Fincher: [00:00:49] Yes. Always happy to have you here and, you know, share space with you. We have the opportunity to do that in some other spaces and always love it when you\'re here on the show.\\xa0\\xa0
So there\'s a lot that has been happening this week. We will certainly get into it. I just want to start, first and foremost, by acknowledging that our Asian community has literally been under attack. Under continuing attack and it\'s unacceptable. And as we have talked about with so many other things, we have to confront hate in all of its forms, whether it\'s jokes or fetishism - people are just - feel like it\'s fine because of model minority myths. "Model minority myth" and all of that.
And all of that is racism. All of that leads to this harm and violence, and we have to call that out in public and in private. We have to confront it in order for it to stop, \'cause it\'s, it is just unacceptable. So I just wanted to start off and say that unequivocally.\\xa0 And say that also it\'s not time for anyone else to do any kind of, what-about-ism to, to try and bring other issues or other nuance in this conversation. This is a time to center Asian\\xa0 voices from the AAPI community.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:02:13] Especially Asian women.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:02:14] Yes. Hundred percent. And, and like, that\'s it. And that\'s, that\'s what we need to do. And we just need to listen and support and be an ally.\\xa0 And most people have heard me, right. Or say, ally is a verb. It\'s about what you do.\\xa0 You know, we can -
Michael Charles: [00:02:32] We don\'t need to see pictures of you at rallies. We don\'t need to see, you know, none of that helps in these times.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:02:40] Absolutely. So, so I just wanted to start with that.\\xa0 And that this is about how we react when we are confronted with jokes and attitude, and hate and bigotry, and violence in our own spaces and our lives. With people we know and interact with, that it is our responsibility to confront it wherever we see it, including\\xa0 and especially right now, stepping up for the Asian community to make sure that this is not tolerated anywhere.\\xa0
So I just wanted to start off with that.\\xa0 And then get to a number of things that have happened this week. I guess we can start\\xa0 with an article that was written this week about\\xa0 a couple of Port candidates. And do you want to talk about that a little bit, Michael?\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:03:26] I mean sure, and full disclosure, both candidates are my - I work with them through the firm and one is actually my, my wife. So I have particularly strong feelings about it, but you know, looking at it from just a, like a pure analytic perspective and thinking deeply about - like I said this to you when we talked earlier - I really, in some ways appreciated the candor because I think that there are a lot of people that feel that way. And it\'s kind of, you know, I thought the irony in it, I guess, was that same author writes a lot about Trump and the problems with Trump and the Republican Party. And\\xa0 I just think, you know, this is that same type of white, like escapism, where they feel like they\'re being left behind.
And I mean, the lines of "Oh, you know, even this is what the voters want now. They care more about DEI than they care about running the economy," as if the two are, for one, somehow separate. And two, to think that you can spew inaccurate information and somehow that makes you better than somebody else is. Literally the things you\'re decrying\\xa0 in one hand, and not understanding in another how you\'re contributing in the same sense and to that, what we\'ll call it exactly what it is - white supremacy.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:04:51] It is white supremacy and to be clear, this was written by David Brewster. It was\\xa0 Port elections - changing dynamics for getting elected, which is just really curious. Just a title and a premise. And he basically - his premise is, "Hey, in these races that are not getting top billing, including these Port races that have\\xa0 women of color running for these positions" -\\xa0 who he one, it is always telling how they choose to describe candidates. Do they refer to them by their profession as they do with so many males and white males? These\\xa0 women are not described by their profession, none of their qualifications,\\xa0 their various expertise - they have quite a bit of expertise in several areas - are not mentioned. One is mentioned\\xa0 because in reference to being\\xa0 the daughter of someone else. Another one, it just mentions that she\'s worked on social justice issues with\\xa0 Pramila Jayapal.
So one, we aren\'t even talking about what their profession is, what their expertise is, what their\\xa0 history is. None of that - always telling. And then went on to say that these races are "now run as an aspect of DEI - diversity-equity-inclusion politics, with\\xa0 voters more likely to vote on youth green causes empowering minorities, than rewarding incumbents for focusing on economic issues, the Port\'s main business."\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:06:27] No mention that the Port is doing worse than it\'s ever done before right now. But you know - we won\'t go there.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:06:35] Yes. And that all of those - you can\'t separate those elements out. If they all work together, if you\'re choosing what to buy and evaluating it based on its qualifications, and some of the requirements that you are required to consider when you purchase and you buy and you make these decisions and you\\xa0 achieve these goals, include these things, then you have to make sense to include these things.
These people, the white people, I have also heard talk about these things and somehow they are not coming up for criticism. And also he has made it very clear that he has not read any of the platforms. He actually made an assumption about Hamdi Mohamed, one of the candidates, and has a stance of hers wrong. And clearly made an assumption that because these were women of color, that they must only be concerned about and are only talking about DEI, which has nothing to do with the Port. And this is a bastardization of what running for\\xa0 election, the quote unquote right way is. And I -
Michael Charles: [00:07:40] There\'s also the part that Toshiko knows about\\xa0 Asian port operations because you know, she\'s Asian.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:07:47] Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Trade. She\'s Asian. And her knowledge of Asian trade -\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:07:54] But the incumbents know about Asian trade apparently. And she doesn\'t, you know. So it was interesting to mention one hand that she does and then the other, she doesn\'t. It\'s just, you know, it\'s consistent with the inconsistency of this article.
Crystal Fincher: [00:08:09] Yeah, it is a mess.It is very - he thinks he\'s whispering, but he\'s yelling.\\xa0 He also\\xa0 got - spelled the name of Hamdi Mohamed incorrectly\\xa0 Hamdi, I mean, it\'s a phonetic spelling and he -
Michael Charles: [00:08:25] It\'s literally in - it\'s the only thing in her logo, in case you needed to look it up. It says "Hamdi" - in case you needed to look it up.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:08:37] Yeah. Yeah, it is - it is something.\\xa0 But I will note he has no problem spelling the name of Peter Steinbrueck - definitely not a phonetic spelling.\\xa0 You know, I challenge people who are not familiar with his name to try and spell that correctly on their first three tries. But somehow her name was too\\xa0 difficult to spell right, or care to even fact check for a former reporter. So that\'s just that. I just wanted to start with that and just see - say we see it, we hear it, and yes, as you mentioned -we hear this is a dynamic out there. And\\xa0 especially when people of color run, we know that people make assumptions about them that have nothing to do with what they say or who they are. They\'re more about the person and the perspective and the mindset that they\'re coming from. So that\'s this - we see it and just wanted to call it out. And we see this.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:09:39] I will say one smart part of the piece that he did engage was that most voters do care about this now because most voters are smart in King County. And yes, that\'s a good thing for our voters moving forward, so I did appreciate that with a nod.
Crystal Fincher: [00:09:56] He was mad about it, but did nail that dynamic and yeah, we do think that\'s -that\'s a good thing. Speaking about other things that we saw this week,\\xa0 I wanted to talk a little bit about some\\xa0 things that I heard. We are both\\xa0 - we got together and\\xa0 with a few of our other consultants of color, most of the Black consultants, started the Political Consultants of Color Coalition. We\'ve talked about that before on the show.
And a lot of it was because we were being\\xa0 like just literally excluded,\\xa0 despite\\xa0 you know, not even, "Hey, we\'re - we want a shot. Like we\'ve done that work. We\'ve shown that we can do that work. We\'re winning those races where we have records as good of, or as good as, or better than the people who were working." It wasn\'t a matter of merit. It was\\xa0 you know, policies that had the effect of excluding\\xa0 consultants and staff of color. And so that was covered.\\xa0 They wound up saying, "Yeah, actually that is literally what was happening. We will change it in many instances. " And that was great, but these dynamics are are just an example of where we\'re at in society, and that permeates all spaces, even spaces where people call themselves democratic and progressive and all of that - doesn\'t make people immune. So, yes. And in fact, the troublesome part is when they use that as cover to say, "No, no. I\'m saying all the right things about including BIPOC communities, and centering BIPOC communities, and being inclusive and welcoming and, you know, having a diverse staff. And no, we are totally doing all of that. I\'m doing all that - I care. So how dare you say that I have a blind spot or I could be doing better in an area. Or I\'m being hypocritical by doing this." That is a dynamic that we\'ve also talked about before.
So, I learned -\\xa0 because we do talk and talking is good and useful and helpful.\\xa0 And sharing information among\\xa0 staff or workers or, you know, classes of workers is, is always useful. Talk about pay, talk about salaries. Talk about conditions, talk about all of that. That only helps people\\xa0 to - who are in more marginalized positions to help make that more equitable.
So we - we have learned that and we do\\xa0 have a continuing dialogue. And so I learned and ended up\\xa0 tweeting about -\\xa0 in one instance, a City of Seattle mayoral candidate\\xa0 is attempting to stiff a BIPOC\\xa0 consulting firm for work that they did - significant amount of work that they did, great work that they did. And is really trying hard not to pay them. That\'s not okay.\\xa0
And then I\\xa0 learned of another situation where another City of Seattle mayoral candidate\\xa0 has offered\\xa0 general consultants less money\\xa0 than people in more junior or different roles.\\xa0 And that\'s not okay. And, you know, you should pay people\\xa0 to scale for what they do in the industry, to scale for, you know, appropriately within your own campaign. And if you can\'t do that, then maybe you should reevaluate whether you\'re ready to run, or maybe you should reevaluate how your campaign is structured. And certainly what you need to do is reevaluate all of the rhetoric that you\'re talking about\\xa0 - equal work for equal pay, and\\xa0 talking about wage theft, and talking about being fair and including\\xa0 BIPOC community - just all of the talk, all of the right words, all the things that they know to say. If you are actually not doing that, don\'t be surprised if you wind up being called out.
And so I just mentioned that - I didn\'t mention names. I figure that - these are still - what prompted me to mention that I knew that is one,\\xa0 it is appropriate for that to be on the radar - the Political Consultants of Color Coalition, of which I am a member. And so that was one, and these issues have been lingering, have not yet been resolved. And sometimes it can be helpful to say, Hey, you should actually, you know, get this resolved. We are actively interested in making sure this gets resolved quickly. So you can take the initiative and get that done.\\xa0
So people noticed,\\xa0 as they do.\\xa0 And the reaction to that has been very interesting in the responses\\xa0 that we\'ve heard and not heard. And one of the responses that I particularly wanted to address was -\\xa0 a campaign followed up with one of the people I was talking about who recognized themselves in that tweet and it was a conversation that we are used to having as people\\xa0 in spaces who are calling out behavior that is not ideal\\xa0 of people who often have more power and resources. And the response to that, the appropriate response to that is, Hey, you know, I saw this mentioned, and I think this is about us. And I think this was about the situation.\\xa0 We would like to, you know, resolve this. We should have handled it - we can handle this differently. You know, we want to make sure we take care of this and all this kind of stuff.\\xa0
What is not appropriate, but what I know we have both experienced, Michael. And what happened in this was - making the person feel wrong for bringing their bad behavior to light. To be clear, it was me who brought the bad behavior to light.\\xa0 And it was me who tweeted it publicly. And I decided\\xa0 to not share names.\\xa0 But they definitely knew who I was talking about. And my goal is just making sure that people get paid money that they\'re owed. And that people are treated how they\'re supposed to be.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:16:26] Accountability, right? Like how do we provide any accountability now? Like it seems like Twitter is our - one of our only tools.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:16:36] Yes. And what was conveyed to this consultant was,\\xa0 Hey, we don\'t want you to wind up in a position where you can\'t end up working in your City." We all know what that means. We all have heard that and dealt with that. It\'s - be careful what you say. Don\'t cause trouble. That\'s only gonna make things harder for you, when really the situation is the person who is calling out bad behavior - the bad behavior isn\'t calling out bad behavior. It\'s the actual bad behavior.
And maybe there was an oversight, maybe there\'s - there were extra considerations. And that happens. And that\'s why there weren\'t names in the tweet.\\xa0 But what also happens is sometimes people just think they can get away with it and they assume that they can operate like that behind the scenes, which we\'ve seen in several circumstances,\\xa0 which is why this isn\'t new behavior. It\'s just new that this behavior is getting called out. But that it is important to bring accountability to it, because if we don\'t, then it just continues to happen. And to have the response be, and I don\'t know if - I can\'t say, because it was someone on behalf of the campaign and not the candidate. I can\'t say that the candidate felt that way, authorized that being saying, but no one should feel comfortable saying something like that. What they should feel comfortable doing is making sure people get paid and do their thing.\\xa0 But not being like, you know, Hey, you should be careful what you call us out for \'cause that might not be cool.\\xa0
And I\'m just past the point because I have been in that situation before,\\xa0 and right now I am fortunate enough to not be. And I\'m in a position where if they threatened to take something, you know, my business isn\'t constructed like that. So, you know, if they\'re going to threaten to continue to not work with me then okay.\\xa0 But that is where the harm is. The harm is in that reaction. We all get called in, and it is how we react to that. And man, that reaction is toxic and I hope that campaigns and people across the board do better. \'Cause this is certainly not an issue limited to current Seattle candidates. It\'s pretty pervasive, but man, I\'m so sick and tired of seeing people mistreated and then treated as if they have done something wrong for sharing that they were mistreated. I don\'t like it.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:19:28] I mean, we see it through all levels of government right now. We\'re talking about the Cuomo situation. It\'s about\\xa0 when are we going to be living the values that we all say that we want to? And I think, I mean, that\'s what we ultimately want when we talk about accountability, right? It\'s to not be hypocritical, to approach\\xa0 problem solving with the values that we all share and say we share. And I think, you know, it\'s part of the reason why you think to even do that is that you\'re asking people to question their own morals and values, and see where do I fall in this and are the actions I\'m taking consistent with the morals and values I\'m stating publicly? You know, it\'s\\xa0 I mean, I think about the Cuomo situation and just how we have so many local politicians that deal in the same business and there\'s the fear of repercussions, the fear of being ostracized or not believed.
I mean, I just think about how that type of situation pervades all types of when, when dealing with race in these situations, when you\'re dealing with anything that pushes the values and morals of a group, like you begin to get pushback. And I think that it\'s really cool to see us all, at least some of us, getting together as a group and beginning to say, No, you know, we\'re stronger when we\'re together. You know, on Twitter, that\'s part of what - when people call it, you know, the Twitterati or whatever, and, you know, they\'re scared they get held accountable in this cancel culture or whatnot. And, you know, it feels very similar in Seattle where people are like, Well, I don\'t want to get yelled at on Twitter. And it\'s like, well, You won\'t if you\'re not doing anything stupid, you know -\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:21:18] Yeah and it usually takes - like, it, it is rare where it is just simply doing something stupid. It\'s usually you have to double down on the stupid and not listen to people who were like, Hey, Hey, reconsider. They\'re like, I don\'t need to reconsider. You re like, you know, and they\'ll just, they double down on it. And, and there\'s a lot of people now who - we just had a conversation about, you know, activism for profit - McKesson, the Grammy awards and, and you know, who, what are we doing this all for?
Is it to, is it to build our personal brands or are we actually trying to make things better for people. To have people\\xa0 you know, to have less harm happen less often. To, to make the playing field simpler, and to not keep power concentrated in the hands of the few, and opportunities concentrated in the hands of the few, and money concentrated in the hands of the few. To give people a real shot to do what they\'re\\xa0 qualified to do, to do what they want to do, to actually be judged on merit and to have opportunities not\\xa0 completely eliminated because someone just isn\'t comfortable with you for a reason they can\'t pin down.\\xa0 You know,it is that. And so we are all challenged in all of our spaces to say, Okay, is what I\'m saying? \'Cause you know, we talk publicly, we are steering campaigns and advocacy, and it is a big deal to say we\'re\\xa0 doing things and to be consistent with the values that you\'re talking about.
And I\'ve had conversations with candidates and others before - it\'s like, Hey, you\'re -you have this in your platform, or you\'re saying this, meanwhile, like, look at how you\'re paying someone right now. Or, you know what you\'re doing here isn\'t exactly consistent. So that is actually a signal that you need to stop and reevaluate that position. Maybe that\'s a sign to you that it isn\'t as simple and straightforward, and this is more of a nuanced issue. And you need to account for that and how you talk about it. Or that, you know, if this is an absolute for you, for everyone else. It has to be an absolute for you too. Otherwise it\'s not, and it\'s just a double standard and you will eventually get called out for it.
You - we all have to take steps to be consistent, and we\'re all challenged continually and confronted with circumstances where\\xa0 that\'s put to a test. It\'s put to a test with how we treat employees, with how we choose to spend money, and, and, you know, in all of these spaces and circumstances. And, and so we all have to do better. And if you\'re going to stand up and say, This is what I stand for, and this is what I\'m holding - what I\'m going to hold the City and the businesses within it, and the people within it accountable for, you can\'t exempt yourself from that. And we\'re at a time when it\'s really cool to talk about\\xa0 supporting BIPOC communities and people are getting a lot of clout and credit for talking about how, you know, like their activist cred and their\\xa0 community cred and all of that kind of stuff. And they are all for fairness and inclusion and equity yet, if you\'re like really trying hard to stiff a consultant and silence consultants, that\'s not right.\\xa0
By the way. I\'m just going to throw this in here for reasons. Yeah. We also need to have a conversation about the role of NDAs in politics in these situations. We\'ve seen both in corporate America and locally, you know, situations with politicians using that to cover up abuse and harassment, like usually it\'s just not good. We all need to keep secrets within campaigns. Confidential information is confidential. That doesn\'t change. That\'s pretty easy to deal with. But using that just as a tool to silence criticism of your own activity and like really doubling down, because you really have something that you really want not talked about. Maybe the solution is addressing the thing that you don\'t want talked about.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:25:42] That\'s right.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:25:45] But that\'s what\'s going on - is lots of people are like name names and one, those are not, you know, the people who are in those immediate situations\\xa0 can make the call about whether or not they want to do that. That is not my call to make.\\xa0 I am there to support -\\xa0 to support people and, and we\'re here to support each other. So that\'s -that\'s where that\'s at. And, and there were lots of questions about that, but, but in general
Michael Charles: [00:26:15] That it\'s just like, it\'s, there\'s a bigger systemic problem than just these specific instances. And I think that\'s what we\'re really trying to speak to. And you call some of these things out - is it\'s like, how do we, like, why aren\'t we thinking about these in the time being, you know, rather than having to react, et cetera. So.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:26:34] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And with so many campaigns\\xa0 kicking off and getting started, these are all conversations that are being had. I mean, the other thing that came up - this was a broad ranging, unpleasant conversation evidently \'cause I\'m referring to like, the things from the same conversation that were relayed to me, that are just so familiar - was the assumption also that came through and we\'ve talked about this before. We\'ve experienced it so many times that as\\xa0 people\\xa0 In politics, Black people in politics,\\xa0 we can only speak to other Black people or we only speak to ethnic audiences and somehow we are not qualified to speak to white people, which one never seems to apply in the same way to white consultants. But also how - just how deeply ridiculous is that? And if anyone bothered to take five seconds to check and see the races that we have worked on and one,\\xa0 you know, you would think that you would want to go with us in like rural and suburban races because we -\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:27:40] It always cracks me up because I\'m from iowa. You know, I\'m like - I lived in Iowa. Why would you not want me to work on rural races? I probably know rural America better than most of you people.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:27:54] Yeah. That\'s the thing - working rural but suburbs are my jam. Like I got suburbs - that has worked out.\\xa0 And, you know -
Michael Charles: [00:28:07] I do understand it.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:28:08] Yeah, we actually deal in those areas and especially with challengers, and really having to win messaging fights in those areas more frequently than a lot of other consultants do. So, you know, but this thinking that somehow we can only speak to certain groups or we can\'t adequately relate to other people is just very revealing\\xa0 and very telling and disappointing and challenging. And that is automatically a limitation\\xa0 that those people are telling you that they\'re, placing on you and\\xa0 very revealing. It\'s no mystery why then they\'re not calling you or saying you aren\'t quite right. Even though you\'ve won stuff, like just, I dunno, it just doesn\'t seem like that is the right fit and all of those very vague things that are said that really boiled down to, they just don\'t feel that we can relate. That we are so different, that we can\'t understand messaging in different situations when literally that\'s what we do every day.
Michael Charles: [00:29:18] Or you get the, I heard you are hard to work with because you called somebody out for being racist before, you know?\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:29:24] Yeah. Yeah. And the racist person is never the problem. It\'s the person who had the audacity to say, Hey, that\'s not okay - the way that you\'re acting.\\xa0 Yeah, it is, that\'s all toxic. And I don\'t like it. And I\'m old and tired and in a position -\\xa0 I do think that when we are in spaces and we have.\\xa0 more privilege that we are there to use it\\xa0 to make sure that other people don\'t have to struggle to the same degree because\\xa0 you know, I, I can\'t speak for your journey, but I know along my path, I have struggled. I know what that feels like. And other people should not have to go through that. It that\'s, that\'s unfair. It is wrong.\\xa0 And this treatment is really harmful. You don\'t know if someone is struggling to pay their bills when you\'re just stiffing them and acting like it\'s just not a big deal. You know, and it is that serious sometimes. I\'ve, I have known people who have been attempting to do this who have\\xa0 you know, been evicted over not being paid and who have like really struggled and suffered. And I\'ve certainly experienced that myself. So I\'m just not here for it.\\xa0 And people should know that yes, people are watching and you just can\'t treat people like that. You just can\'t. So that\'s where it\'s at today. Hopefully those situations are resolved fairly quickly. And hopefully we can talk about issues that matter to people in all of these races, in these various cities and jurisdictions.\\xa0 But how you conduct yourself matters and people are watching and kind of across the board, there is a new culture and\\xa0 zest for accountability that I hope people are prepared for.
And I\'m looking forward to it.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:31:11] Yeah, totally. I agree. I think that\\xa0 that\'s part of the amazing things with the internet becoming so prominent. I also, you know, to kind of shift gears, but I also think that it\'s also lessened the impact of endorsements too, which I think is kind of an interesting piece that like these organizational endorsements - things don\'t matter as much now because we have the internet. We have all these other measures of accountability from which to judge people by. So I don\'t know, that\'s kind of a tangent, but. I think we\'re all like a very similar wrapped in piece of like, this accountability is actually providing better candidates. I actually think there\'s a lot of ways it\'s improving democracy in some ways.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:31:51] I agree.\\xa0 It is. I mean, you know, certainly positives and negatives have resulted from the ways we are able to share information and connect. But one of the dynamics in campaigns is that it is, it does, it can decentralize power. It can distribute power in ways that weren\'t there before and across the board. You know, you talk about endorsements. Those are really interesting all the time.\\xa0 Because a lot of times there is a, you know, whether it\'s a board or committee -\\xa0 a really small subset of an organization is driving a lot of the\\xa0 endorsement process. And there has certainly been a long-standing feeling\\xa0 in some spaces in areas that, that some of the endorsements represent the membership. Yeah. And so the members are like, well, how\'d that happen? I don\'t, you know, like I thought this other candidate was the one who was down for workers, like this other candidate used to be one of us.
And they\'re challenging an incumbent. And for some reason we\'re endorsing an incumbent that like voted against our interests? How does that, and you know, we\'ve both watched this happen where like they will endorse against their members. And endorse people who\'ve not been with them for some reason.\\xa0 And sometimes people really like the proximity to power.
\\xa0But, but it doesn\'t make sense. And so it has enabled people to be like, okay, but, but for the people who actually care for who is really down for workers or was really down for community or who is principally concerned with who is\\xa0 voting for the right things in the SPOG contract, you know - name the issue that they can vet for themselves what is happening. And they don\'t need\\xa0 a couple people on a board to signal to them who they should support. More information is more accessible and they can do that for themselves and actually even call their own, you know, endorsing board out. So it\'s an interesting dynamic. I think it\'s one that\'s - that we\'re going to see throughout this\\xa0 election season. These races are going to be really interesting.
\\xa0And we just saw Jessyn Farrell and Bruce Harrell -
Michael Charles: [00:34:19] Wow. I didn\'t realize those rhymed until right now.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:34:24] That - look, I just said that and I didn\'t realize it.
Michael Charles: [00:34:31] The week of Harrell and Farrell. Yes. The week of Harrell and Farrell.
Crystal Fincher: [00:34:34] Yes. The week of Harrell and Farrell has happened.\\xa0 I certainly found Bruce Harrell\'s take on how to make communities safer from the SPD interesting.\\xa0 You know, he had mentioned that he would have people - he\'d, I want to say it verbatim because I don\'t want it to sound like I\'m mocking him. I want to say exactly what he said accurately.\\xa0 And so, and he had mentioned\\xa0 his first step would be to ask every police officer to watch the video of George Floyd\'s murder and ask officers to sign a statement saying that inhumane treatment of human beings doesn\'t fly in Seattle. That\'s the baseline, he says. That was according to -\\xa0 Natalie Graham was live-tweeting his announcement.
\\xa0I am hoping to hear more details about more concrete accountability and actual\\xa0 policy and institutional and organizational changes.\\xa0 I think at this time, videos and pledges are not going to get it.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:35:42] I mean, it\'s certainly ending climate change, that\'s for sure.
Crystal Fincher: [00:35:48] Michael.
I mean, we\'re going to have a robust con-. I can\'t even tell,look, this has put me all sideways. We\'re going to have a robust conversation\\xa0 on, you know, on all of these issues. And, and the one thing I will say, that I am excited about is, is that we\'re going to hear, like, so often it\'s hard for people who are not Black, or people who are not people of color,\\xa0 for white people to be like, okay, there are varying opinions among Black people. So often the tendency is to be like, okay, so what is the Black opinion? What is the Asian opinion? Like, you know, what does this community think? And like every other community, like white communities, we don\'t all share the same opinion as we just saw, right? We don\'t all hold -we don\'t all have the same background and experiences. We are not coming from the same place.\\xa0 You know, we, we have different takes on things and I think that conversation is healthy. We\\xa0 are going to have -
I\'m looking forward to a number of the conversations in\\xa0 the city-wide city council race\\xa0 that includes both Brianna Thomas and Nikkita Oliver. They\'re, they\'re both people who have done a ton of good work and I like them both. And they\'re going to have differing opinions on, on things. And I\'m interested to hear that and we need to surface more nuance and real conversation from within communities.\\xa0 Because that, that is a mainstream conversation. People are not aware of it - they should be. And so I\'m excited that we\'re going to hear from a number of Black candidates who don\'t all agree and, and we\'re just going to talk about it, and we\'re going to deal with it as we, as we do. And as we have within the community, but, but to see majority communities and white communities interface with that and, and like experience that, which they don\'t often get to experience in major metropolitan races. I think that\'s a positive. A positive thing.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:37:53] Yeah. I mean, as long as it\'s done in respectful ways, you know, I\'m just, we\'ve mentioned many times that people can have positive intentions, but their results can not, can oftentimes lead to, you know, negative scenarios. And I, you know, I\'m just concerned with\\xa0 people who aren\'t more in tune with the nuanced conversation. I hope they\'re able to respectfully engage when there are disagreements. Or, you know, understand that the viewpoints are - they\'re both coming from Black women, are both coming from people of color or, you know, Native and\\xa0 Black folks. Like I just think there\'s a whole bunch of different experiences that you need to also consider the source before you begin criticizing the way that - our current political environment usually has allowed for the engagement. That the styles of engagement. So, you know, I\'m a little cautious to suggest I\'m excited.\\xa0 I, I think that\\xa0 I\'m cautiously optimistic.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:39:04] I -. you know, I think it\'s going to be ugly, but I think we have to deal with it. I guess I\'m just like, well, we\'re going to have to deal with it. Like this is something they need to engage with. Here we go.\\xa0 And, and that engagement, you know, as we talked about at the beginning of the show, a lot of that engagement will be ugly and\\xa0 not respectful or, or, you know, not coming from a place of good faith or genuine engagement. And we need to see that too.
Michael Charles: [00:39:38] Yep. That\'s true. And so how we started this today, you know, and with that, that piece, the Port article, I think it\'s important to see that viewpoint because we can\'t grow unless people are being honest with themselves.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:39:50] Right.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:39:50] With their viewpoint, so -\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:39:52] Yeah. And, and just because you - there is kind of like you talked about, well, you know, how can you say, how can you criticize me for doing this? I criticized Trump. I\'m, you know, not doing that. And like, clearly dude, you have some blind spots\\xa0 have to be addressed. Like, why don\'t we go ahead and correct that name that has still not been corrected. Can we start with that?\\xa0 And like maybe before you assume what someone is talking about, like read their platform, engage with people of color to the same degree and with the same depth that you engage with these white candidates - to start.\\xa0 So that\'s, I mean, that is, is, we\'re just going to have an interesting conversation. We\'re going to have another interesting week.\\xa0 And there is more of a desire to see if people are living consistently with the values that they are espousing.
So -\\xa0 and we have a Campaign Workers\\xa0 Coalition and union now. That\'s a new dynamic, which is exciting.\\xa0 So, so there are people getting together and sharing and supporting each other\\xa0 increasingly in a lot of spaces.\\xa0 We\'re going to get an Amazon vote pretty soon - results. And so\\xa0 I, I think that is an encouraging, exciting thing that we are seeing - that in spaces that have resisted organization for so long\\xa0 in both overt\\xa0 and direct and indirect ways like us, we aren\'t a union, but we are acting\\xa0 cooperatively. I think that makes things better for all of us.
Michael Charles: [00:41:31] Agreed.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:41:33] We\'ll continue down that road.\\xa0 Just want to thank everybody for taking time to listen today to Hacks and Wonks.\\xa0 Today\'s show - as always a full text transcript of the show is available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the show notes. I wanted to thank Michael Charles, who you can find on Twitter @mikeychuck that\'s, M I K E Y C H U C K.\\xa0 And I\'m on Twitter @finchfrii - that\'s F I N C H F R I I. You can find Hacks and Wonks wherever you get your podcasts, just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar and subscribe to get our midweek show, and then our Friday almost live show. Of course, you can find more information at officialhacksandwonks.com.
So thanks for joining us. Thank you, once again, Michael -\\xa0 have fun with the new baby.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:42:21] Thank you! And thank you for living your values Crystal, for doing all the work that you can to do it. So appreciate you.\\xa0
Crystal Fincher: [00:42:29] Appreciate you. And like we\'re doing a lot of this work together, so appreciate too.
Yeah. And we\'ll talk to you next week. Thanks everyone.\\xa0
Michael Charles: [00:42:39] Sounds great. Thanks you all.
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