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b'In this week\\u2019s episode, Jason and Alex are joined by Kurt Volker, former US Ambassador to NATO and former US\\u2019s Special Representative to Ukraine. The wide-ranging discussion tries to unpick NATO\\u2019s role in our increasingly disordered world. They also examine what makes NATO successful where the UN and other international organizations falter. They discuss both the 2023 NATO summit in Lithuania and the 2023 Tbilisi International Conference, entitled \\u201cDefeating Putinism.\\u201d They also look forward to next year\\u2019s supremely important NATO summit in Washington with bated breath. That moment not only marks 75 years since NATO\\u2019s creation, but it \\u2018should be\\u2019 the moment that NATO offers Ukraine concrete steps to membership. Plus: they look at the late Senator John McCain\\u2019s legacy and the US\\u2019s role in NATO, as the momentous 2024 election approaches.\\xa0\\xa0\\n\\xa0\\nAlex and Jason Order the Disorder by postulating why Ukraine needs to join NATO as soon as possible \\u2013 even if the war with Russia is still ongoing.\\xa0\\n\\xa0\\nTwitter: @DisorderShow\\xa0\\nWebsite: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/nato-and-adversaries\\xa0\\xa0\\n\\xa0\\nProducer: George McDonagh\\xa0\\nExec Producer: Neil Fearn\\xa0\\n\\xa0\\nShow Notes Links\\xa0\\n\\xa0\\nPrevious episode on NATO here\\n\\xa0\\nRead Kurt Volker\\u2019s NATO assessments here\\nLearn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices'