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In this episode Neil and Ian explain the Regular Interlaboratory Counting Exchanges (RICE). The scheme assesses the proficiency of laboratories counting asbestos fibres in air. UK laboratories are required to be accredited by the United Kingdom Accreditation Service (UKAS) to ISO 17025 to undertake this particular analysis as part of assessing clearance under the Control of Asbestos Regulations (CAR).

Transcript

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Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Welcome to Asbestos Knowledge Empire. I\u2019m Ian Stone.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 I\u2019m Neil Munro.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 So today we are talking about RICE.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 Not the stuff you eat.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 We are talking about the Regular Interlaboratory Counting Exchanges. That rolls a few time easy, it is not lame. So a few podcast ago we spoke about the AIMS which is the bulk analysis, the actual physical asbestos sampling analysis whereas RICE it is kind of a similar scheme but it is to check off our air analyst, our air management analyst. Again, it is an external scheme and it is run by HSE testing and monitoring again, and every so often, it\u2019s like once a quarter I think they send out a number of actual slides.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yup. Again, these are real live ones sometimes but more often they are made up. And really it goes kind of against the day to day sort of air monitoring slides that the analyst see. \xa0

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 A lot of the time, yeah.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 So it goes against, so you got heavily saturated fibers on some of the slides and sometimes it would be chrysotile fibers which are really sort of like fine and thin and hard to see, and they are on the borderline countable. Sometimes it would be sort of amphibole needle like fibers which are heavily stack in the actual slide itself which high counters. And then sometimes it would be very, very low counters where there is barely any fibers on the slides. And then sometimes I spot just a little tiny bit which is heavily populated.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 In one area.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 One area and they are the ones which fry all the counters out because when you\u2019ve got 10 counters on and it is very subjective so the way that you count a slide it\u2019s random sort of graticules that you\u2019re counting, so it is kind of a bull\u2019s eye.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 If you imagine a bull\u2019s eye or a target or like on a rifle the optical that a shooter would look through, that kind of target.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yup, well those on the microscope and you move it around the slide and you just count within that target area.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 And it is moved around the slide in a random, not in a systematic, not the same and we\u2019re counting 200 graticules on the slide.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 So you can imagine if counters, they all count differently, so you\u2019re going to hit that random area.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Some will, some won\u2019t.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 Some won\u2019t. And that sort of kind of the counter out. So they really have, once this sort of like quantify sometimes.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Again, this is kind of the air management analyst kind of getting raw slides in.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yeah, because there are bogus.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 There ae bogus. But again they keep you on your toes, they test you. They make sure that you are doing everything properly so when you are counting an air management slide you need to zoom all the way down through all the plains on the actual slides. What I mean by that is you zoom all the way down through the sample back all the way up through the sample because the different fibers can sit at different levels within that filter and you need to make sure that\u2026

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 You\u2019re counting the whole slides.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yeah, you are counting the whole slide. You are spotting all of those fibers that are on that actual filter. Yeah, and it is quite easy on some of them if you had just a quick scan over. On first impression you go, \u201cNah, there\u2019s nothing on this one.\u201d But then when you start zooming in and out of the filter you find the plain where the asbestos fiber are sitting whereas at first glance you\u2019re going, \u201cThere is nothing on it.\u201d And like you said the chrysotile ones are, they bsolutely bogus because they are so fine.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 You\u2019ve got to find focus on those slides to make sure that you do see all the fibers. To calibrate the microscope, you know, we use some calibration, imperial test slides they are called, and you have to see a certain band of on that test slide to make sure that you are in line you are seeing all the fibers that are countable.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 And the band that we are talking about it is not like, it\u2019s difficult to explain. It is like once you set the microscope up you look at the bands and band one is easy, band two is alright, three is alright, four gets a bit more a little difficult, five\u2026 It is like you can just see it and that\u2019s on the microscope that\u2019s set up 100%. It is so fine and that is why you have to follow the procedures to set the microscope up correctly because if you don\u2019t you won\u2019t get to see the fifth band. If you can\u2019t see the fifth band, when you then count normal slides or RICE slides you are not going to see those fine minute fibers. And that\u2019s why it is so important and so key. So with the RICE exchanges, every UK accredited laboratory counts them it goes back to HSE then basically analyze the results of everything.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 And then the lab. Our lab\u2026

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 You are categorized.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 You are categorized and you have to fit in within certain bounds. And we have to maintain that for our accreditation.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yes, we do.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 So far, suddenly there are fiber counters stopped being able to count properly we lose our accreditation.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yeah, we can\u2019t then trade and do air managing.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yeah, simple as that.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 So it is great kind of quality control system for clients, again, through what we do. It gives you the confidence in the fact that we can do what we say we can do.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 Again, complacency sits in all fields of work and this is just a way of ensuring and it is externally verified that our counters are still maintaining the standard required. In the addition to that, you know, the counters we have our own internal QC systems.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yeah, we have our own set of slides don\u2019t we.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 That RICE is quarterly, and QCs are, they are monthly, so the counters will have to count library slides and working slides.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yeah, and what do we mean by working slides, so the quality department, so they pull people slides from actual working sites and take the labels of, relabel them as the working slide for everybody else to count that month, and everybody\u2019s slide gets pulled. So basically what you\u2019ve recorded on site for your slides, your slides get taken out of the storage box, re-issued to everybody and then everybody else counts what you\u2019ve counted.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yeah, it is to double check. One, checking if everyone is still counting right, and two, it is to check off that individual counted that slide correctly on that occasion.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yeah, it is kind of double check on that one.\xa0 \xa0

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yes. There\u2019s lots that goes into obviously maintaining the quality within a UK accredited laboratory and that\u2019s just one of those.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Well, those hoops that we have to jump through that the analyst love doing. \xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 But it is good. We work with asbestos, it is a hazardous material, and it does kill people and we can\u2019t afford to let standard slip.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 No, definitely, no.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 So we\u2019re really big on making sure that a department is on top of all of our necessary checks and quality controls.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yeah, and the thing is we take it serious to the point of we just don\u2019t do the band minimum. We do more. We go above and beyond for those reasons. I mean, we want to be able to sleep at night to make sure that our guys are out there doing what they should be doing. And the only way to do it is to test and measure, and these kind of QCs system and the RICE system, the AIMS system, that\u2019s what they do. They test and measure our staff and staff performance.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 It is definitely particularly important for the fiber counters because essentially as part of the of course those clearance of asbestos removal works before the enclosure or the area could be handed back to the occupants we have to follow those clearance and part of that is the air monitoring which includes the fiber counting. So before that area come down we need to be satisfied that the area is satisfactory and if their counter is not counting right then potentially they are going to pass off an area that\u2019s maybe not fit for re-occupation.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 And that\u2019s it, because asbestos is so minute that\u2019s why we use microscopes. You might have an area that looks alright however there could be millions of fibers in the air. And that is what this check is doing. This is what its capturing. It is capturing the snapshot of air at that time and then the analyst is counting that actual sample to make sure and say, \u201cYes, I\u2019m happy for the children to re-enter this classroom\u201d, \u201cYes, I am happy for the office workers to come back in to this area and sit within this environment all day every day.\u201d And that\u2019s why it is so vital and so important, and that\u2019s why the QC needs to be up there.

Neil:\xa0\xa0\xa0 Yeah, and rises just the next level of the quality control, and again, it is the external verification. These results are published as part of the ongoing rising.

Ian:\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Hope you enjoyed that one. Thanks for listening. Remember, asbestos first not last.