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Let\u2019s be real: writing is hard. We\u2019ve written and rewritten this intro seven times. Taking on _any_ new challenge or project that requires deep thought, passion, and creativity, can push us outside of our comfort zones. It can make us feel anxious about succeeding\u2014but it can also force us to grow and take on _new_ challenges.\n\nIn this episode, Erika Hall talks with us about starting a design agency, the power of empathy in everything we do, and her brand-new book.\n\n> People are actually terrified of asking questions \u2014 and especially people who end up in positions of leadership. To say, \u201cOh, we don\u2019t know this and we have to find something out, and I don\u2019t have the answer\u201d is really scary, and that\u2019s nothing that we\u2019ve been rewarded for our entire lives. And if you want to have a research mindset or just use evidence to make decisions, you have to be in a constant state of admitting that you don\u2019t have all the answers.\n> \n> _\u2014Erika Hall, Mule Design_\n\nHere\u2019s what we get into\u2014and of course, there\u2019s a full transcript, too.\n\n## Show Notes\n\nFirst, Katel shares a secret: when she started working for A Book Apart, she\u2019d never worked on a book before. But neither had the first author she worked with! And it all worked out ok. We discuss getting used to big new challenges, and how to decide when it\u2019s time to take the leap and write a book\u2014and then give the middle finger to imposter syndrome.\n\n### Interview: Erika Hall\n\nDesigner, author, and all-around smarty [Erika Hall](https://twitter.com/mulegirl) fills us in on how she spent the last year: writing a book (and getting stuck, and writing some more), teaching people how to make better design decisions, and taking on gender bias in the workplace. We talk about:\n\n- How she started [Mule Design](https://muledesign.com/) and how the agency\u2014and their work\u2014has changed since 2001.\n- Being outspoken online and fighting the trolls who live in our review systems.\n- Why it\u2019s critical to bring empathy into our working relationships as well as our personal ones\u2014and how feeling comfortable being uncomfortable can be the most powerful thing you can do. \nWhy we won\u2019t solve gender bias with education alone; we have to change our own habits and help others learn to do the same.\n- Her new book, [_Conversational Design_](https://abookapart.com/products/conversational-design), all about how to use conversation as a model for designing interactive digital products and services that are less robotic and more real.\n- The joys and horrors of writing: making it through 2017, surviving the myth that your second book will be easier than your first, overcoming a health setback\u2014but getting through it all to launch a book.\n- Finding inspiration IRL\u2014no, really, sometimes stepping away from our screens and talking to our neighbors is the best way to rediscover the good in the world. And listening to Oprah. And Ru Paul.\n\n### Fuck Yeah of the Week\n\nWe end the show with heartfelt appreciation and admiration for [Emma Gon](https://twitter.com/Emma4Change)