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Perpetual Chess is back with another bonus pod discussing the ongoing Magnus Carlsen/Hans Niemann controversy. The major news of the week was that GM Magnus Carlsen issued a statement on Monday confirming that he suspects GM Hans Niemann of cheating. To discuss the story, I am honored to be joined by 2 Grandmaster guests who offer significant domain expertise beyond the chess world. First up is GM Jonathan Rowson, a renowned author and philosopher and the 3 time British Chess Champion. My conversation with Jonathan is centered around the human element of this story, and how we can hope to avoid biases in our interpretation of the information at hand. Following GM Rowson, I am joined by Dr. David Smerdon. GM Smerdon is a 7 time Chess Olympian for his native Australia, and an award winning chess author. David has worked with both Dr. Kenneth Regan and also the Chess.com cheat detection team. David\u2019s primary field is development economics, but he has a statistical background and devotes significant time to chess-related research. As we discuss, in addition to chess cheating, David has published a paper related to gender issues in chess. I found it helpful to hear the grounded perspective of 2 of the chess world\u2019s most insightful thinkers. As always, timestamps of topics discussed can be found below.\xa0\n\n0:00- Intro and review of recent events:\nSub to Perpetual Chess Linkfest\n5:00- Perpetual Chess is brought to you in part by Chessable.com. You can check out all of their latest offerings here:\xa0\nhttps://www.chessable.com/courses/all/new/\n\n6:00- GM Jonathan Rowson joins (recorded September 28)\n\n6:00- 3 key questions to ask ourselves\n19:00- Should we draw a distinction between cheating in online and OTB chess?\xa0\n29:00- Are we likely to get a resolution to this case?\xa0\xa0\n32:00- What are sensible anti-cheating measures?\xa0\n35:00- Jonathan reflects on his recent return to OTB competitive chess\xa0\n39:00- What behavioral biases should we be alert for as we evaluate the information presented?\xa0\n48:00- What opinions has Jonathan heard from his GM peers?\xa0\nMentioned:\xa0\nCarlsen-Niemann 2022 \nMishra-Niemann 2022 \n53:00- Thanks to Jonathan for joining the show! Here are links to keep up with him.\xa0\nTwitter\xa0\nThe Moves that Matter\nHis website\nHis Chessable Courses\xa0\nYou can hear our prior interview here. (Episode 150)\xa0\n\n56:00- Perpetual Chess is brought to you in part by Aimchess.com. Aimchess\u2019 algorithm reviews your games and gives you actionable advice on how to improve your game. Check it out for free, and if you choose to subscribe you can use the code Perpetual30 to save 30%.\nOr use this link for the same discount:\nhttps://aimchess.com/try?ref=benjohnson12\n\n57:00- GM David Smerdon joins (recorded September 27)\n\n58:00- What does David\u2019s research suggest about why people cheat at chess?\xa0\n\n1:08:00- David has seen Chess.com\u2019s list of banned players, obviously he can\u2019t reveal names, but is there anything he can say about it?\xa0\n\n1:13:00- David discusses some of GM Fabiano Caruana\u2019s comments on the controversy from the C Squared podcast\n\n1:20:00- David discusses the Let\u2019s Check feature on Chessbase. We are referring to video\u2019s such as this one by FM Yosha Iglesias, which makes a good-faith attempt to analyze Han\u2019s games with data.\xa0\nMentioned: IM Ken Regan interview with James Altucher\xa0\n\n1:30:00- Does David have a personal opinion about whether Hans cheated OTB?\xa0\n\n1:33:00- Could one be termed "guilty" of cheating OTB based on data alone?\xa0\n\n1:40:00- David discusses his fun and useful statistical tool, the Fighting Chess Index (FCI).\xa0\n1:45:00- David discusses his research on gender and chess.\xa0\nMentioned: BBC News: Chess Commentator Sacked for Sexist Remark\n1:57:00- Thanks to David for sharing his insights! Here are some of the ways to keep up with him:\nTwitter:\nhttps://twitter.com/dsmerdon\n\nDavid\u2019s Chess Blog:\xa0\nhttps://www.davidsmerdon.com/\n\nAward Winning Book\nThe Complete Chess Swindler\xa0\nYou can hear our prior interview here. (Episode 30)\nLearn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices