238: Mastering Software Reliability with Daniel Ruby
Daniel Ruby is a VP of Marketing at\xa0Nobl9. Ruby is a dynamic marketing executive with a focus on B2B marketing, and has significant experience building teams and driving successful, data-driven programs for a range of startups and mid-sized organizations. As the Director of Online Marketing for Localytics, Ruby was the first marketing hire and scaled his team to a full-fledged marketing department with domain specialists focused on mobile apps.\xa0\xa0
Ruby also has a background in journalism and spent several years guest lecturing marketing courses at Bentley University, bringing this dynamic skill set to his current role at Nobl9. Ruby holds a BA in Broadcast Journalism from the University of Missouri-Columbia and an MBA in International Business from Brandeis University.\xa0
Questions
\xb7\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 We always like to start off by asking our guests if they could share with us a little bit about their journey, how you got from where you were to where you are today.
\xb7\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Could you share with our listeners, what is Nobl9 and what exactly are you providing? What service are you providing? How are you adding value to your customers lives using this platform?
\xb7\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Could you give us an example, like a use case of an application, you can choose any industry, and kind of just give us an idea of what that looks like so the audience can get a more practical view.
\xb7\xa0 \xa0 Could distinguish or differentiate for our listeners, what's the difference between an SLO and an SLA?
\xb7\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Now, Daniel, could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
\xb7\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0\xa0 Where can listeners find you online?
\xb7\xa0 \xa0 Before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track.
Highlights
Daniel\u2019s Journey
Me: Now, Daniel, could you share with our listeners, we always like to start off by asking our guests if they could share with us a little bit about their journey, how you got from where you were to where you are today.
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Daniel shared that he was a journalist for a while, and kind of realized that there was not much of a market for it, so he kind of went and got an MBA to get a job, and kind of fell backwards into marketing as it is. And over the years, he\u2019s been with more than 10, mostly 10 startups, driving marketing, driving the customer experience in terms of from the moment that they're introduced to them as a brand until the moment that they no longer want to be or need to be working with them.\xa0
He finds a lot of joy in trying to make that experience pleasant, for lack of a better term. He\u2019s self-taught with most of the marketing stuff that he does, and he\u2019s kind of over the course of the years he\u2019s become very arrogantly convinced about a few core tenets of really communicating to customers and communicating to potential customers that have served him well, and it kind of always comes back to giving value at every step of the journey.
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About Nobl9 \u2013 Enhancing Software Reliability and Value for Your Business
Me: Now, could you share with our listeners, what is Nobl9 and what exactly are you providing? What service are you providing? How are you adding value to your customers lives using this platform?
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Daniel shared that Nobl9 is basically a platform for software reliability. So, if we think about how somebody engages with a digital product, or even an in-person product with a digital back end to it. They are the premier, and kind of really only well-established provider of what's called Service Level Objectives, or SLOs. And an SLO was basically taking all of the different data points that make up your product, be it from the software, from the infrastructure, from third party microservices, etc, etc, etc, and rolls it up and actually gives a customer centric view into how reliable is their product.\xa0
And the reason that they do this is because most reliability, historically has been around is the product up. Is it up? Is it down? But anybody who's ever used a mobile app or a digital product, or even like a scan to pay service at a cafe knows that it's not just is it up? Is it working, or is everything within it doing what it's supposed to do?\xa0
So, he knows marketers like himself have taken the word holistic and kind of beaten it to death. But they do provide a holistic customer centric view. What is the customer experience like when actually using your product?
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Me: So, Nobl9 is helping the application to maintain its reliability and have as little or no downtime as possible while the customer is interacting with it correct?
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Daniel agreed, correct and kind of beyond downtime, is it, does it load fast enough?
Do all of the different features load fast enough?
Is there anything blocking my ability as a customer to buy from you or to use your service, or whatever you're trying to do?
So, that's effectively what they do.
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Practical Use Case \u2013 How Nobl9 Enhances Software Reliability
Me: Okay, could you give us an example, like a use case of an application, you can choose any industry, and kind of just give us an idea of what that looks like so the audience can get a more practical view.
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Daniel shared that it's a little engineering, and he\u2019s a marketer so he feels like he\u2019s not necessarily smart enough to completely understand the engineering speak of it. But if you think about like an Ecommerce app, if you open up the app and it loads in traditional reliability, that's reliable. But how many times have you gone into an app.\xa0\xa0
So, let's say your path in using E commerce app is, you\u2019re going to load the app, going to search for the product that he wants to buy, he\u2019s going to add it to his cart, he\u2019s going to go to his cart, he\u2019s going to check out. And maybe there's a login to My Account somewhere in the way.\xa0\xa0
With SLOs, what you can do is you can have all of the different steps of that path viewed as part of this overarching experience with the app. So, if you go to add something to your cart, the app sits there and hangs, that's not good reliability.\xa0\xa0
If you go to the cart itself, and for whatever reason you go to pay and like the app's connection to PayPal for whatever reason isn't working, and you get this message back that says, hey, we can't complete your payment, try another credit card or something, that's a bad experience. And that's the kind of reliability breakdown that leads people to quit using a product.\xa0
So, they make sure that strategically, all of the things that make up that path, you'll have a server dedicated to your shopping cart, you'll have a micro service that is dedicated to completing a purchase. They make sure that all of that you've got visibility into how the experience is for the end user, not just some third-party service that tries to connect and says yes, it can connect, no it can't connect. It's the whole experience of a digital product and they make it easy to understand.
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Understanding the Difference \u2013 SLOs vs. SLAs
Me: Now, at the beginning, you mentioned that it's based on your SLOs or Service Level Objectives. And just wanted to know if you could distinguish or differentiate for our listeners, what's the difference between an SLO and an SLA?
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Daniel stated that that\u2019s a great question. So, an SLA is typically an agreement that you have with your users. You say you'll be able to use my product or my service xx percent of the time. And that's more of a contractual conversation than it is, a reliability conversation. When you start actually building it, in order to make sure that you're achieving this SLA that you\u2019ve agreed upon with your clients, you've got to make sure that you know all of these different elements of their experience are operating at a certain efficiency. So, he hates to over complicate things, but there's actually a step in between called an SLI, a Service Level Indicator.\xa0
And so, a Service Level Indicator is things like, \u201cI want my website to load in less than 100 milliseconds.\u201d That's a Service Level Indicator. And the SLI is effectively a consistent goal, but then what you do with SLOs is you take that a little bit further.\xa0\xa0
So, an SLO operates within what's called an error budget, and you get a certain number of errors per month, per week, however, you want to set it up. And an error is when you don't meet that SLI and you say, \u201cI know that it's maybe not impossible, but either improbable or just extremely expensive to make my website load in less than 100 seconds every single time.\u201d\xa0
So, what an SLO does is it says, okay, I expect to meet this SLI however often I have decided is actually impactful on the customer experience, and whenever I don't, you get an error, and at that point, you're like, okay, it's an error, but an error is not an outage.\xa0
Daniel stated that he doesn't know if he\u2019s explaining this really well, but basically if you look at an SLO graph, it's going to be going down into the right and that is your budget. You say, okay, I expect this part of my service will meet my everyday life 95% of the time. And then you see the little graph going down, which, every time it doesn't meet that, it froze an error, and a certain amount of errors, it's just part of digital product development is understanding that you have to accept some errors. 100% perfection, it's impossible.\xa0
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Me: Does not exist.
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Daniel agreed, it does not exist. And a lot of people think about reliability in the number of nines, \u201cMy product is available 99.99% of the time.\u201d That would be called four nines. Every nine that you add to that number basically increases your IT costs by an order of magnitude. So, at a certain point, you got to understand with SLOs are really the ideal way to do it.\xa0
At what point does this actually impact my customers?
At what point does this actually impact my users?\xa0
It allows you to be strategic, and it allows you to see things when they begin. So, you mentioned outages earlier, an outage, your whole product crashes, it's unavailable to anybody. Those don't happen in a vacuum, there's something that causes them. And if you've got an SLO or a set of SLOs really, displaying the health of your service, the health of your product, you're suddenly going to see a bunch of errors coming in.\xa0
And you may or may not have enough forewarning to say, \u201cOh, crap, we're about to have an outage. Well, this server in my cloud provider is having massive latency issues, it looks like the server is about to crash, and that's going to take everything down.\u201d You can have a little bit more of a runway to try and identify the actual issue behind a potential outage. And that's where you strategically define how much, how many errors can I tolerate in a month?\xa0
And then you basically have a real time view at all times.\xa0
Is my product, is my service running the way I expect it to, and the way I expect it to is from the perspective of the customer. Are my customers able to do what they expect to be able to do when they launch my app, or when they use my product.
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App, Website or Tool that Daniel Absolutely Can\u2019t Live Without in His Business
When asked about online resource that he can\u2019t live without in his business, Daniel shared that personally, it's HubSpot. He spent a few years as a HubSpot consultant, a third-party consultant for HubSpot integrations. And he could say a marketing automation platform, but he got a fanboy a little bit about HubSpot because it takes everything that used to be complicated about sales and marketing and customer support and customer experience, and kind of rolls it up. You\u2019ve got your CRM, you've got your automation platform, you've got your email platform. He\u2019s actually taken to feeding his HubSpot metrics into Nobl9 SLO lately, because there's so much rich data within HubSpot.\xa0
And he\u2019s been running little things like, they'll change a script for their biz dev team. And then they'll just run a metric on calls connected to calls having a success, either a demo or a follow up request.\xa0
And HubSpot\u2019s got such great data, and then he can turn that into an SLO where he can say, \u201cOkay, I expect the submission rate on my forms to be X percent. I expect the completion rate of our inside sales calls to be X percent over 80% of the time.\u201d\xa0
And he can run that in an SLO, he can see that like if he changes something, but simple little things, if he changes the colour of the submit button on a form, he can see in real time what the view to submission rate is that's changing, and he can act on that. He can put a little note in the SLO with that time stamp and say, \u201cHey, I changed the color of this button\u201d and see how that's making an impact. Or, if he looks in HubSpot and see, \u201cOh, crap, my submission rate has been terrible for the past 36 hours, what's happened?\u201d And he can go into his SLO and say, \u201cOh, there\u2019s a little note here, I changed something in the UX. I changed something colour wise. I added a question, I removed a question.\u201d And you see direct historical cause for that.\xa0
But going back to HubSpot in general, he really respects HubSpot\u2019s approach to they call it the flywheel, which is all about delighting customers and delighting prospects.\xa0
And they really do a great job of giving you the tools to actually give value in your marketing and sales and customer service processes. He doesn't know what he\u2019s do without HubSpot right now, he'd probably try and hack something together with Salesforce and Marketo and be more complicated and less easy to get adoption internally. But luckily, he doesn't need to.
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Where can listeners find Daniel online?
LinkedIn \u2013 Nobl9inc
X \u2013 @nobl9inc
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Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Daniel Uses
When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert, Daniel shared, \u201cNothing is a failure unless you fail to learn from it.\u201d He stated that he\u2019s got a great team that he works with at Nobl9. And some are early in their career, some have been working in marketing for several years, some have advanced degrees, some don't.\xa0
And so, he\u2019s been with Nobl9 since January, and one of the things that he wanted to do quickly was make sure that people were comfortable making mistakes and understanding that an action and its outcome is not the end of that process. If you don't learn from it, why it worked, why it didn't, then you've made a mistake. But failure is as important an element in driving success in any business scenario. So, he likes making sure that people know that, and he likes making sure that they feel comfortable, because without being comfortable with failure, how are you going to try anything revolutionary?
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Me: True. Thank you so much for sharing, Daniel.
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Now, we just like to thank you so much for hopping on this podcast and sharing all of the great insights about Nobl9, the wonderful work that your team is doing as it relates to ensuring that customers are having a more seamless and frictionless experience across these platforms and increases the reliability. And we really appreciate some of the great nuggets that you shared with us as it relates to what is a Service Level Objective versus a Service Level Agreement and a Service Level Indicator, great information to learn, to understand the whole process, because in order to navigate the customer experience, there is really a lot that you have to take into account to ensure that the customer walks away feeling like, yeah, that was that was fun, it was easy, it wasn't hard, and I was able to do it really quickly. So, thank you so much.
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