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Kevin Yien leads product for merchant experiences at Stripe. Before that, he meandered his way from being a technical designer to a product manager, built the restaurants business and ecosystem team at Square, and most recently was head of product and design at Mutiny. He also makes ice cream and teaches for fun. In our conversation, we discuss:

\u2022 Why aspiring PMs should start in engineering, design, or sales

\u2022 The importance of writing skills, and how to become a better writer

\u2022 How to automate user research

\u2022 Kevin\u2019s \u201cunsell email\u201d technique for hiring

\u2022 The value of keeping a decision log

\u2022 Insights on AI and its impact on future generations

\u2022 Lessons from failure

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Brought to you by:

\u2022 BuildBetter\u2014AI for product teams

\u2022 OneSchema\u2014Import CSV data 10x faster

\u2022 Eppo\u2014Run reliable, impactful experiments

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Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unorthodox-pm-wisdom-kevin-yien

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Where to find Kevin Yien:

\u2022 X: https://x.com/kevinyien

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinyien/

\u2022 Website: https://kevinyien.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

\u2022 Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

\u2022 X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Kevin\u2019s background\xa0

(02:00) The story behind Kevin\u2019s profile picture

(08:41) The role of a product manager

(10:48) Getting started in product management

(12:47) The importance of writing skills

(15:06) Becoming a better writer

(19:10) The PM\u2019s role with engineering and design

(28:41) Drawing the perimeter for your team

(31:37) Feedback tips

(35:13) Decision logs and product sense

(45:36) Unorthodox hiring strategies

(47:01) The unsell email strategy

(54:01) Automating user research

(01:02:27) AI in everyday life

(01:06:05) Lessons from failure

(01:14:34) Lightning round

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.