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Bob Moesta is the co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) framework, a close collaborator of Clay Christensen, and CEO and founder of The Re-Wired Group. He has helped launch more than 3,500 new products, services, and businesses and built and sold several startups himself. He is also a fellow at the Clayton Christensen Institute and a guest lecturer at the Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan School of Entrepreneurship, and Northwestern University\u2019s Kellogg School of Management. In this episode, we discuss:

\u2022 What Snickers and Milky Way can teach us about JTBD

\u2022 The various flavors of the JTBD framework

\u2022 Best practices for implementing the framework

\u2022 Advice on conducting interviews for B2B vs. B2C customers

\u2022 Common mistakes people make when implementing JTBD

\u2022 When not to use it

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta

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Where to find Bob Moesta:

\u2022 Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/bmoesta

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobmoesta/

\u2022 Website: http://www.therewiredgroup.com/

\u2022 Podcast: https://pca.st/gg6goo1n

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Where to find Lenny:

\u2022 Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

\u2022 Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Bob\u2019s background

(04:04) A simple explanation of the Jobs To Be Done framework

(07:29) Struggling moments and demand

(09:51) Understanding the context behind pain points

(11:14) Reducing friction in the sales process

(14:46) How Autobooks improved their buying process and 4x\u2019ed conversion

(16:52) The six phases of the buying process

(18:30) The JTBD interview process

(21:55) How Bob\u2019s TBI affected his reading/writing and how he is able to write books

(22:02) Why people switch companies

(27:18) Tips for JTBD interviewing

(30:07) Why you should not have a discussion guide

(32:48) The danger of looking at the customer through the product

(33:53) First steps in applying the JTBD framework

(36:25) Signs people are ready for a change

(37:43) Bob\u2019s \u201clayers of language\u201d

(40:15) Examples of companies with a broad adoption of JTBD

(43:59) The different flavors of JTBD and common mistakes to avoid when implementing it

(48:19) Bob\u2019s work with Clay Christensen on JTBD theory

(51:05) When not to use JTBD

(53:40) Common misconceptions about the framework

(55:55) What compelled Bob to spend so much of his life on JTBD

(58:07) Three big takeaways

(59:07) Lightning round

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Referenced:

\u2022 Jason Fried on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-fried/

\u2022 Des Traynor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/destraynor

\u2022 Southern New Hampshire University: https://degrees.snhu.edu/

\u2022 Paul LeBlanc on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-j-leblanc-6a17749/

\u2022 Demand-Side Sales 101: Stop Selling and Help Your Customers Make Progress: https://www.amazon.com/Demand-Side-Sales-101-Customers-Progress/dp/1544509987

\u2022 Autobooks: https://www.autobooks.co/

\u2022 Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/

\u2022 Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/

\u2022 HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

\u2022 The Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University: https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/

\u2022 Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

\u2022 Michael Horn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbhorn/

\u2022 Ethan Bernstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanbernstein/

\u2022 Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as If Your Life Depended on It: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805

\u2022 William Edwards Deming on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

\u2022 Basecamp: https://basecamp.com/

\u2022 Sriram and Aarthi on Lenny\u2019s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/hot-takes-and-techno-optimism-from-techs-top-power-couple-sriram-and-aarthi/

\u2022 Genichi Taguchi: https://www.qualitygurus.com/genichi-taguchi/

\u2022 Tony Ulwick on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyulwick/

\u2022 The Clayton Christensen Institute on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/clayton-christensen-institute/

\u2022 Shape Up: https://basecamp.com/shapeup

\u2022 The End of Average: Unlocking Our Potential by Embracing What Makes Us Different: https://www.amazon.com/End-Average-Unlocking-Potential-Embracing/dp/0062358375

\u2022 The Big Bang Theory on TBS: https://www.tbs.com/shows/the-big-bang-theory/watch-now

\u2022 Oppenheimer: https://www.oppenheimermovie.com/

\u2022 Kyota massage chairs at Costco: https://www.costco.com/massage-chairs-cushions.html?brand=Kyota&refine=%7C%7CBrand_attr-Kyota

\u2022 Paul Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pauladams/

\u2022 Matt Hodges on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattnhodges/

\u2022 Andrew Glaser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glaserandrew/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.