Podcasts Technology Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of The Managers Path, ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)

The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of The Managers Path, ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)

Published: Sept. 15, 2024, 11:01 a.m.

Camille Fournier is the author of The Manager\u2019s Path, which many consider the definitive guide for navigating one\u2019s career path in tech. Camille was previously the CTO of Rent the Runway, VP of Technology at Goldman Sachs, Head of Platform Engineering at Two Sigma, and Global Head of Engineering and Architecture at JPMorgan Chase. She is about to release new newest book, Platform Engineering: A Guide for Technical, Product, and People Leaders. In our conversation, we discuss:

\u2022 What product managers do that annoys engineers

\u2022 Why major rewrites are a trap

\u2022 Why you should have fewer one-on-ones

\u2022 Strategies for organizing and working with platform teams

\u2022 Tips for new managers

\u2022 Advice for transitioning from individual contributor to manager

\u2022 Much more

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Brought to you by:

\u2022 DX\u2014A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity

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\u2022 Coda\u2014The all-in-one collaborative workspace

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Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/engineering-leadership-camille-fournier

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Where to find Camille Fournier:

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/camille-fournier-9011812/

\u2022 Website: https://skamille.medium.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

\u2022 Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

\u2022 X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

\u2022 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Camille\u2019s background

(02:17) Common annoyances between PMs and engineers

(07:09) Avoiding the telephone game

(08:05) Hoarding ideas and over-engineering

(09:55) The importance of involving engineers in ideation

(11:37) The middle-person dilemma

(14:21) Rewriting systems: a big trap?

(20:40) Engineering leadership lessons

(36:02) Moving from IC to management

(40:32) One-on-one meetings

(45:10) Pushing beyond comfort zones

(45:27) Building a balanced work culture

(48:01) Effective time management strategies

(54:15) Advice for platform team success

(01:02:42) Platform team responsibilities

(01:04:43) When to form a platform team

(01:07:02) Thriving on a platform team

(01:12:48) AI corner

(01:17:03) Lightning round and final thoughts

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Referenced:

\u2022 Platform Engineering: A Guide for Technical, Product, and People Leaders: https://www.amazon.com/Platform-Engineering-Technical-Product-Leaders/dp/1098153642/

\u2022 The Manager\u2019s Path: A Guide for Tech Leaders Navigating Growth and Change: https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897

\u2022 97 Things Every Engineering Manager Should Know: Collective Wisdom from the Experts: https://www.amazon.com/Things-Every-Engineering-Manager-Should/dp/1492050903

\u2022 Avoiding the Rewrite Trap: https://skamille.medium.com/avoiding-the-rewrite-trap-b1283b8dd39e

\u2022 Levelsio on X: https://x.com/levelsio

\u2022 Pieter Levels on the Lex Fridman Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtjKbXKqbg

\u2022 GraphQL: https://graphql.org/

\u2022 New Blue Sun by Andr\xe9 3000 on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/33Ek6daAL3oXyQIV1uoItD

\u2022 Musk\u2019s 5 Steps to Cut Internal Bureaucracy at Tesla and SpaceX: https://icecreates.com/insight/musk-s-5-steps-to-cut-internal-bureaucracy-at-tesla-and-spacex-you-may-say-it-s-his-algorithm/

\u2022 Ian Nowland on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/inowland/

\u2022 Studio Pulls \u2018Megalopolis\u2019 Trailer Using Fake Quotes from Famed Movie Critics: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/studio-pulls-megalopolis-trailer-using-fake-quotes-from-famed-movie-critics_n_66c74046e4b0f1ca469413c7

\u2022 Claude 2: https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-2

\u2022 What Got You Here Won\u2019t Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful: https://www.amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wont-There/dp/1401301304

\u2022 When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times: https://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/1611803438

\u2022 Alien: Romulus: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt18412256/

\u2022 Whoop: https://www.whoop.com

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



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