Episode 22: David Frum, On Trumpocracy
Show Notes\n\nDavid Frum (@davidfrum) is a senior editor at the Atlantic Magazine and a frequent contributor at MSNBC. He is a former speechwriter for George W. Bush and is known for coining the phrase \u201caxis of evil.\u201d He has been a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and a contributor at the National Review. He is the author of nine books including most recently Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic, which we discuss today.\n\nSelected Quote\n\nChris Martin:\xa0How do you currently define conservatism?\n\nDavid Frum: Conservatism fundamentally is a habit of mind. It\u2019s a mental disposition and it\u2019s connected to the constitution of the individual mind. We also use the word \u201cconservatism\u201d to describe a particular ideology and what has happened in the United States in recent years is that definition has frozen, and what we now call \u201cmovement conservatism\u201d is an anthology of policy solutions to the problems of the 1970s and 1980s.\xa0As it has become more obsolete, conservatives have lost interest in policy and what we now call conservatism has become a series of oppositional attitudes to what\u2019s going on in the culture. I call them attitudes because they don\u2019t really have content.\n\nTranscript\n\nThis is a professional transcript but it may contain errors. Please do not quote it without verification.\n\nChris Martin:\xa0My guest today is David Frum. He\u2019s a senior editor at the Atlantic Magazine and a frequent contributor at MSNBC. He\u2019s a former speechwriter for George W. Bush. and is known for coining the phrase \u201caxis of evil.\u201d He has been a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and a contributor at the National Review. He And he is the author of nine books including most recently Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic, which we\u2019ll discuss today. So here is David Frum.\n\nChris Martin: Hi David. It\u2019s great to have you on the show.\n\nDavid Frum: Thanks so much, Chris.\n\nChris Martin: Before we get to your new book, which is why I invited you here, I would like to talk to you about the definition of conservatism in general. It\u2019s something you\u2019ve talked about in recent interviews. How do you currently define conservatism?\n\nDavid Frum: Look, conservatism fundamentally is a habit of mind. It\u2019s a mental disposition and you\u2019ve done work on this that it\u2019s connected to the constitution of the individual brand. We also use the word \u201cconservatism\u201d to describe a particular ideology and what has happened in the United States in recent years is that definition has frozen and what we now call \u201cmovement conservatism\u201d. It\u2019s an anthology of policy solutions to the problems of the 1970s and 1980s.\n\nAs it has become more obsolete, conservatives have lost interest in policy and what we now call conservatism has become a series of oppositional attitudes to what\u2019s going on in the culture. I call them attitudes because they don\u2019t really have content. There\u2019s a perfect demonstration of this.\n\nYou and I were talking over the weekend in which a Trump-North Korea summit has been first on, then off, then on again. At each of these somersaults, the people who call themselves conservatives have applauded the wisdom of precisely what the president and his administration are doing.\n\nFirst one way, then the exact opposite, then the first way again. That tells you there\u2019s not a lot of policy content there.