BROADCASTS.com

b'

TRANSCRIPT

\\xa0

Listen to ASCO\\u2019s Journal of Clinical Oncology essay, \\u201cCemetery Rounds\\u201d by David Steensma, a hematologist-oncologist in Boston. The essay is followed by an interview with Steensma and host Dr. Lidia Schapira. Steensma describes the complex emotions that result from encountering graves of former patients on walks through a cemetery in his New England hometown.

Narrator: Cemetery Rounds, by David Steensma, MD, FACP\\xa0

In the summer of 1784, the body of a 4-month-old infant named Sally was the first to be laid in the earth of the hill next to my home. The gravedigger\\u2019s backhoe still cuts into the ground about once a week in what has become the largest cemetery in this Massachusetts town. During the recent pandemic, the graveyard was an open place with no need to wear a mask, so I often walked its quiet paths in the evening to stretch my legs after long hours hunched over a computer. These unhurried ambles were a chance to reflect on the day\\u2019s events and make plans for future days\\u2014and sometimes to ruminate on life and how it ends.

Little Sally\\u2019s simple slate marker, with a willow and urn carved above the names of her parents and a short, grim epitaph\\u2014\\u201cA pleasant plant, a blooming flower, Cut down & wither\\u2019d in an hour\\u201d\\u2014has been joined by thousands of other tombstones over the past two centuries. After a dozen years living in this Boston suburb, I now recognize some of the names on these memorials:\\xa0Stones that mark the final resting place of people who were once friends or fellow members of the same Congregational church that Sally\\u2019s family belonged to long ago, and stones with surnames shared by nearby schools and streets.\\xa0

There are too many gravestones that recall young people who were once classmates of our children in the town\\u2019s schools. Walking past those memorials means remembering moments of shock and sadness: news about car wrecks and ski accidents, suicides, sudden collapses on hockey or football fields, and the other disasters that take the lives of the young. Stones for the 21st century children are all in the newest part of the cemetery, with its memorials for those who died within living memory. In that part of the cemetery, visitors still often leave toys, Boston\\xa0Bruins or New England Patriots pennants, lacrosse sticks, and horse reins.\\xa0

Sally\\u2019s stone, in contrast, is the oldest part of the cemetery. It is surrounded only by close cropped grass and stout trees. Once I saw a freshly cut flower laying on Sally\\u2019s grave, and I wondered who left it. It is rare to see those ancient graves get special attention\\u2014a bracing reminder that no matter how bright our star might shine in our own era, we will all eventually be forgotten.

The largest and most prominent gravestone in the cemetery recalls the grandson of a local eccentric. This boy drowned in New Hampshire\\u2019s Lake Sunapee at age 17 while trying to save another teenager who had fallen from a boat. It was the second time a close family member of the man had drowned: In 1893, as a child, he watched his older sister slip beneath the swift water of the Annisquam River. He reacted to this pair of tragedies by declaring a lifelong war on gravity.

\\xa0Grief is not always rational, although it may be productive. The eccentric man became wealthy\\u2014by predicting the 1929 stock market crash and by starting a successful business\\xa0analysis firm\\u2014and he created a well-funded private foundation to understand and combat\\xa0gravity. This Gravity Research Foundation sponsored important conferences attended by Albert\\xa0Einstein and other luminaries and awarded prizes to Stephen Hawking, Freeman Dyson, and a half-dozen Nobel laureates in physics. Gravity, however, remains unconquered and incompletely understood. All of us will eventually be pulled into the earth by its unrelenting grip. A growing number of gravestones bear the names of people who were once my patients at a Boston cancer institute. Some days it is hard to see those stones on my evening walks, noticing name after name that once graced a clinic schedule or hospital rounding list, and to be so starkly reminded of how our best efforts ultimately failed them.\\xa0

Most of the time, though, what I recall are the happier moments with these patients, which keeps these walks from being morbid. Cancer centers are not known for being joyous places, yet surprisingly, often there is laughter in clinic rooms or on morning hospital rounds. We oncologists celebrate milestones with our patients: remissions achieved, college degrees completed, new grandchildren, and long awaited weddings attended. We know that graves like these await all of us, but for a while, we can put that aside and not just live but thrive.

In one corner of the cemetery, a small marble bench faces a stone that marks the final resting place of one memorable former patient: A young woman with a wicked sense of humor who, as a grieving relative said at her funeral, was wise beyond her years, and taken before her time. When I rested on that bench last night, I was reminded of what French vascular surgeon Ren\\xb4e Leriche wrote in 1951, at the end of his long career: Every surgeon carries within himself a small cemetery, where from time to time he goes to pray-a place of bitterness and regret, where he must look for an explanation for his failures. For me that cemetery is a physical place as well as metaphorical.\\xa0

Yet when I think of her, I always smile, remembering who she was, and the happiness she brought to those around her. When she was alive, her hospital room was a place of laughter and hope rather than bitterness and regret. Even after a long day in the clinic, when I made hospital rounds in the evening, it was a joy to see her and discuss the events of the day. I do not know how she kept it up for so long in the face of so many disappointments and frustrations. Everything we tried to treat her cancer eventually failed her\\u2014every antibody, cell therapy, and drug after drug after drug. Even when new treatment regimens were declared at national meetings to be active, well tolerated, and worthy of further study, she always seemed to be one of those who had not responded or who suffered intolerable side effects. One door after another closed so that soon the only available doors were the ones that took her back home, with the support of a kind and skilled hospice team.

At times, she could sense my sense of failure as I sat by her bedside and would try to reassure me as if the sorrow was mine instead of hers. It\\u2019s all right, it will be OK. We did what we could. You did what you could. Now it\\u2019s time to move on. Where did she get the strength? Eventually, as evening turned to night, it grew cold in the cemetery. I moved on, buoyed by her memory. Saying good night to Sally, I headed home.

Dr. Lidia Schapira: Hello, and welcome to JCO\'s Cancer Stories: The Art of Oncology, which features essays and personal reflections from authors exploring their experience in the field of oncology. I\'m your host, Dr. Lidia Schapira, Associate Editor for Art of Oncology and a Professor of Medicine at Stanford University. Today we\'re joined by Dr. David Steensma, who currently leads hematology early development for a biotech company in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and was for many years a faculty member in the Leukemia Program at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and Harvard Medical School, and also a past Editor for Art of Oncology. In this episode, we\'ll be discussing his Art of Oncology article, \\u201cCemetery Rounds.\\u201d\\xa0

Our guest disclosures will be linked in the transcript. David, welcome to our podcast and thank you for joining us.\\xa0

Dr. David Steensma: Thank you for having me.

Dr. Lidia Schapira: I\'d like to start by asking you a little bit about your process for writing. You have published beautiful essays in JCO and in other venues, and I know you\'ve always been a writer. Talk a little bit about that, especially for some of our younger listeners\\xa0

Dr. David Steensma: This is the first article that I\'ve submitted to the Art of Oncology in a number of years, actually, and this one was a long time in gestation. One of the things that I found over the years is that whether I\'m writing and how much progress I\'m making is a really good barometer of where I\'m at mentally. And I think the fact that this took the better part of three years to write probably illustrates how difficult these last few years have been for me as they have for so many of us. Sometimes writing happens very quickly. You get a germ of an idea, something maybe you\'ve been mulling over for a long time and it all falls into place. But much more often, it\'s a process in which one is trying to express what is very difficult sometimes to say appropriately.

Dr. Lidia Schapira: Some of your articles, including this one, have elements of history in it, and I think that\'s something that you\'ve always been interested in, not only medical history but history in general, sort of what was happening at a time when somebody was ill or an illness was first described, or in this case, people were buried. Tell us a little bit about that, about combining your interest in history with your medical writing.\\xa0

Dr. David Steensma: I think I like to tell stories and really always have. If I didn\'t do medicine, one of the other two alternatives was journalism. And I\'ve always been interested in how things got to be the way that they are. So I think that naturally is reflected in the writing.\\xa0

Dr. Lidia Schapira:\\xa0I know you\'re also an avid reader, so what would I find now on your night table or on the desk alongside the medical journals that probably are unopened?

Dr. David Steensma: Wow. I have some science. I have Ed Yong\'s amazing book about the microbiome. I just started reading I\\u2019m Glad My Mom Died by Jennette McCurdy, a former child actor, which has just got rave reviews, so reading about her difficult upbringing in this memoir and her mother\'s death from breast cancer. And so the third one over on the shelf over there that I have off is ASCO-SEP because I\'m doing the 10-year medical oncology board renewal next week. I\'ve been doing the LKA for hematology, but I\'ve also kept up MedOnc and internal medicine. It was just too painful to think about all three. So I have all these NTRK and ROS1 inhibitors and pathways for advanced cervical cancer jumbling around in my head right now, which I\'m sure a lot of our listeners could relate to.

Dr. Lidia Schapira: I can relate to the anxiety I felt the last time I was recertified, and I swore it would be the last time. So thank you for spending a little time with us. Maybe it\'s a distraction from the other. Yeah.\\xa0

I wanted to talk about \\u201cCemetery Rounds.\\u201d We were so happy to get your paper after all these years. A reviewer said, \\u201cOh, thank goodness, Steensma\'s writing again.\\u201d Tell us a little bit about this quiet, meditative practice of walking along the cemetery near your home, especially during the pandemic.

Dr. David Steensma: Well, the pandemic did so many weird things, and just everything was different, from the way we bought food to the way that we caught up with loved ones to the way we structured our days. Everything changed, and one of the things we ended up doing was spending even more time in front of our computers. And I\'m kind of fidgety, always have been. So by the end of the day, I\'d had a lot of energy I needed to get out and thought about where I could walk nearby that was a good place to stretch my legs. And we lived right around the corner from an old cemetery and quite a large one, a cemetery that actually got quite busy during COVID, so I didn\'t really think about that part of it. But they brought in at the beginning of the pandemic, all kinds of extra materials for digging graves and cleared out some additional area. It was really quite striking just seeing that happen.\\xa0

But one of the things I think I didn\'t prepare myself for mentally, walking through that cemetery, which is a beautiful place, very respectful, and well kept, was how many patients and other people I would recognize. And just walking past stone after stone with names that I recognized, people who had been my patient or those of colleagues that I\'d interacted with on inpatient services over the years, a number of children who had been our kids\' classmates in the town\'s public schools and who had sadly run into one tragedy or another. It was really quite striking how many of the people I felt like in a very old cemetery, how many names I recognized. There were a lot, of course, I didn\'t, but their surnames were on the streets nearby and the town founders. And this sort of made me reflect, particularly when I noticed that we don\'t normally see our patients\' graves. We may attend their funerals or their memorial services, but even that often the last time we see them is when they\'re going home to a hospice setup or to an inpatient hospice or sometimes just at a last clinic visit, and then something sudden happens.\\xa0\\xa0

So this seemed like something that could have been very sad. But I think partly because of the tranquility of the place and the mindset of the pandemic, there was actually a lot of reflection of positive things, interactions with these patients - the happiness sometimes that we brought to each other, conversations that had been difficult, but also events that have been happy milestones that they got to see because of our care. And then also the hard realization that ultimately modern cancer care failed them that\'s why they were there. So just a lot to reflect on in a time when it seemed like death was all around anyway because of the pandemic. So I thought, gosh, this would be something I think people could relate to.\\xa0

Dr. Lidia Schapira: It struck me that you describe your approaching these gravestones as an intimate space that we normally don\'t get to be part of, that sort of belongs to the family and the friends and the community, but the clinician is often not there. And it struck me also that the immediate thing you talk about was how therapies have failed them. And I just wondered if you could talk a little bit more about that. Maybe because we\'re both part of the same culture, it\'s so easy immediately to think that we did something wrong and that\'s why they ended up there. But can you reflect a little bit more about that particular aspect of our work?

Dr. David Steensma: Yeah, just because an outcome was sad doesn\'t mean that mistakes were made, but may reflect the limitations of the science and art of medicine as they currently are. I think surgeons wrestle with this a lot. And in fact, I included a quote in the essay by Rene Leriche, a well-known French vascular surgeon in the 1950s, who talked about how each surgeon has their own personal cemetery of a place that they go to reflect from time to time. And that\'s something that in M&M conferences I was always shocked as a student and trainee just how brutal they were on each other and on themselves. It\'s part of this surgical culture. But I think surgery naturally lends itself to thinking that somehow you did something wrong.\\xa0\\xa0

And perhaps in medicine, we\'re a little bit more in touch with the fact that we followed the guidelines perfectly. We got advice from colleagues, patients were presented at conferences. We enrolled them in clinical trials of things that seemed interesting and promising and just that the disease just kept coming back. And so that\'s not necessarily a personal failure. And I think in that circumstance, there\'s maybe a little bit more space, a little bit more permission to connect with the memory of that person in a positive way and reflect on who they were and what they meant for their families and for the others that they interacted with. And so when I see these stones, I don\'t think, "Oh man, I really screwed up, and that\'s why they\'re here." Never, never. I think about, "Gosh, we tried so much, and he or she went through so much, and yet this was where they ended."

Dr. Lidia Schapira: It seems to me a very healthy approach, certainly. And I loved the surgeon\'s quote here in the essay, that every surgeon carries within himself a small cemetery, not just the surgeon. I think, as you said, we do as well. I also love the framing of the fact that it\'s not so much guilt but sorrow that we carry for them and also that they affect our lives. I remember when you talked about your patients, I remember the article you published about Michaela, the little girl who played the cello on the Leukemia ward and got to be famous. And in this particular article, you talk about a young woman who somehow seemed to think that she needed to comfort you and reassure you that you did everything that you could. Those are such beautiful memories, and you have such a talent for sort of paying tribute to your current and past patients that this is really so beautiful to read. And with that, I just wanted to ask a personal question, if I may, and that is, do you miss the clinical work?

Dr. David Steensma: I do, definitely. So, yes, I am always impressed by the strength of patients and of their families often, and people manifest that in different ways. But I\'ve just seen so many amazing things over the years. When I decided that I wanted to try to influence cancer care and hematology care in a different way and move to direct hematology and early development in a research institute affiliated with a company, I, unfortunately, had to step back from seeing patients at Dana-Farber because it was considered a conflict of interest. It hadn\'t been until just a few months before but, you know, new rules. So I do miss that. And I\'ve been thinking a lot about ways to get back to making those connections because, yes, it is meaningful to be developing new medicines, but there\'s something also very immediate about being there for a person in a time of need. And those relationships that you build, by far, that was the hardest part of making the job transition with so many patients that I had long-term relationships with; that was hard.\\xa0

Dr. Lidia Schapira: So my last question is more philosophical. I am teaching a course for undergraduates that involves explaining how people experience illness. So I\'ve been reading a lot of illness memoirs throughout my career, and I was looking for scholars who had worked on this and found, of course, Arthur Frank and his themes of how illness is portrayed by patients, stories of shipwrecks and catastrophes or quests or restitution of meaning. And I wondered if you had given any thought to the same sort of narratives that oncologists play in their heads of how they treat patients. What do you think are the most important themes in the way oncologists think of and remember the patients they\'ve treated?

Dr. David Steensma: One of the things that\'s special about oncology is that even though it\'s a profession that is very much scientifically based, that we connect with patients at a point in their narrative and often get to know them over months, years, and that narrative and who each of us is along that journey change over time. So I think that\'s what makes our field really compelling. At least it was very attractive to me. That\'s very much true. I think of other fields as well, where you do have longitudinal care of a patient, but there is something special about a cancer diagnosis and what that makes people think and how their families and people around them react. That I think, is unique.

\\xa0

It really is an honor to be with patients through this narrative, and Arthur Frank has written about that and about the sort of patient story and how that evolves. And I think that\'s a healthy way of thinking about what people go through. And we also have to remember it\'s their story that we\'re fortunate to be able to witness. And when you walk past a tombstone, you know maybe a little bit about how that story ends, but there\'s always a birth date and there\'s a death date, and there\'s a dash in between, and we know very often very little about that dash. Maybe we were a little part of it, but that encompasses their whole lived experience.\\xa0

Dr. Lidia Schapira: I think that\'s a beautiful way to end this. I tend to think of us when we\'re in our clinician roles as co-editors of that story if we are invited to play that part, and that\'s such an honor and privilege.\\xa0\\xa0

David, thank you so much. I hope and ask that you please continue to write. We all have so much to learn from you.\\xa0\\xa0

Until next time thank you for listening to JCO\'s Cancer Stories: The Art of Oncology. Don\'t forget to give us a rating or review and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can find all ASCO shows at asco.org/podcast.

The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions.\\xa0\\xa0

Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

\\xa0Show Notes:

\\xa0Like, share and subscribe\\xa0so you never miss an episode and leave a rating or review.

Guest Bio:\\xa0

Dr. David Steensma is a hematologist-oncologist in Boston, and formerly long-time faculty member in the leukemia program at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and Harvard Medical School.

Additional Reading:

A Cello for Michayla, by Steensma