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The Conversation Art Podcast

A podcast featuring both one-on-one and three-way roundtable conversations with contemporary artists, dealers, curators, and collectors--based in Los Angeles, but reaching nationally and internationally.

Zombie Formalism, Debt aesthetics, and AI & Art: New Yorker writer/critic Chris Wiley

Published: Dec. 2, 2023, 10:46 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 44 minutes 44 seconds

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Epis: 354- the Art Thief, the remarkable story of art history's most prolific stealer, with author Michael Finkel

Published: Oct. 14, 2023, 10:50 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 24 minutes 4 seconds

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Epis. 351- veteran co-host Deb Klowden Mann joins to discuss Money on the Wall, an epic profile of dealer Larry Gagosian

Published: Sept. 2, 2023, 10:16 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 30 minutes 34 seconds

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Epis: 349- Narsiso Martinez on his epic story from Oaxaca to California, from picking produce in the fields to becoming a full-time artist

Published: Aug. 5, 2023, 9:12 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 37 minutes 11 seconds

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Epis: 347- Alexis Rockman on 'owning' natural history

Published: July 1, 2023, 8:38 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 3 minutes 27 seconds

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Epis: 345- House-hunting with a Billionaire

Published: June 4, 2023, 6:21 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 44 minutes 12 seconds

Hungarian billionaire Gabriela and artist and architect Andi Schmied talk about:

Andi\\u2019s residencies, across Asia and Europe, as well as the Triangle Arts residency in DUMBO, Brooklyn, where she first connected with her fellow Hungarian, the billionaire Gabriela; some of the developments around the world that led her to the realization that there\\u2019s a glut of useless, ultra-wealthy housing that\\u2019s not actually being used, particularly a complex of villas about 100 miles outside of Beijing, where the groundskeepers wound up squatting in the empty units; doing a residency in New York in 2016, when she encountered Gabriela for the first time, who would become her key collaborator for what would her project \\u2018Private Views;\\u2019 the world of ultra-high end real estate, including the dynamics of a real estate agent showing a penthouse apartment of a very tall building to a client, and how Gabriela navigated these experiences; the questions the real estate agents showing these penthouses and other very expensive apartments asked, and what that revealed about the world of the ultra-wealthy; the various ways super-tall buildings in Manhattan are impacting everything from income inequality to changing the flora and fauna in Central Park from the long shadows they cast.

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Art Adivisor Lisa Schiff- a Re-Release of Episode 99 from 2015

Published: May 26, 2023, 6:58 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 26 seconds

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Epis: 343- Flora, Public Art and loving New York even if NY doesnt love you back: Brooklyn-based artist Nancy Blum

Published: May 6, 2023, 5:49 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 25 minutes 7 seconds

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In-Between Episode including fresh OLD NEWS

Published: April 22, 2023, 8:23 p.m.
Duration: 14 minutes 12 seconds

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Epis. 341: Class Issues- artists and class with Berlin artist Norbert Witzgall

Published: April 8, 2023, 5:19 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 19 minutes 1 second

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The Conversation MIDWAY- Bonus episode announcement, plus a rant on the art services industry

Published: March 26, 2023, 9:06 p.m.
Duration: 14 minutes 30 seconds

If you would like to access Episode 340A, which features four great stories from Art Can Kill, you can support The Conversation on Patreon here:

The Conversation Art Podcast | creating a podcast that goes behind the scenes of the art worlds | Patreon

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Epis. 340: Veteran art handler Bryan Cooke on 50+ years in the art handling business, including several brushes with death

Published: March 9, 2023, 9 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 21 minutes 54 seconds

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Preview/Teaser for Epis. 339A- Art Can Kill: The Art World's Crooks, Clowns & Connossieurs

Published: Feb. 26, 2023, 4:06 a.m.
Duration: 13 minutes 55 seconds

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Epis. 338: Former pro surfer and current arts writer Jamie Brisick on why success is its own form of failure, and Raymond Pettibon, Paul Chan and Francis Alys, among others

Published: Feb. 11, 2023, 9:11 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 16 minutes 58 seconds

Arts writer and former professional surfer Jamie Brisick talks about: w hat it was like being on the pro surfing tour back in his late teens and early 20s, and how he developed his Plan B career initially as a surfing writer before moving into arts & culture writing; how he comes to art/the art world with a relatively fresh perspective, and has experienced some unsavoriness in the upper spheres in its being too much like high school in terms of popularity, etc.; what it means when, to quote the artist Paul Chan in this case, \\u2018Success is its own form of failure;\\u2019 the varied and fascinating work of Francis Al\\xffs, whom Brisick tried to get an interview with but was essentially blown off, but whom he still highly respects and reveres as an artist; the artworks, storytelling, and other idiosyncrasies of quintessential surfing-art artist, Raymond Pettibon, whom Brisick has profiled extensively and become friends with; the surf-skate pioneer Craig Stecyk (also a mentor of Brisick\\u2019s) and his crazy performance art stunts; and his relationship with the journalist and writer William Finnegan, whose struggle with his memoir may be a source of inspiration for listeners.

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Epis. 337: Art & Politics- how can they co-exist? The Conversation's 14th Virtual Cafe

Published: Jan. 28, 2023, 8:18 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 50 minutes 54 seconds

n the 14^th installment of the podcast\\u2019s Virtual Caf\\xe9, we take as our prompt a Dec. review by NYTimes art critic Holland Cotter about politics in art:

About 10 artists in the Virtual Caf\\xe9 (including past guests Ianna Frisby of Art Advice and William Powhida) talk about art and politics, including successful examples of political art; the nimbleness of capitalism to absorb all things protest; the challenges and failures of artists to organize, particularly artist unions; the question of whether artwork being in a gallery is neutered, in terms of its political/social power; virtue signaling in art, particularly political art; Theaster Gates as a strong example of an artist changing a community, and of socially engaged art; the importance of the rhetoric around so-called political art (including the good side of the word \\u2018didactic\');\\xa0the lack of transparency in galleries reporting where their donations to (political) causes are allocated; and how to take political art to the people, as opposed to through the gallery system.

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Epis. 336: on The Death of the Artist, a frank conversation with writer and cultural critic William Deresiewicz

Published: Jan. 7, 2023, 10:49 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 31 minutes 33 seconds

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Epis. 335: Mashed potatoes hurled at Monet, Artists being replaced by AI Robots, a Bad Studio Visit cartoon, and new email etiquette for the Uffizi Gallery, with a very special guest-host

Published: Dec. 25, 2022, 5:23 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 4 minutes 16 seconds

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Epis. 334: The challenges in green-lighting public art thats actually good- curator and arts administrator Zoe Taleporos

Published: Dec. 10, 2022, 8:36 p.m.
Duration: 51 minutes 47 seconds

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Epis.#333- Tjebbe Beekman, Amsterdam-based artist on how a major life turning point became a turning point for his art

Published: Nov. 25, 2022, 7:23 p.m.
Duration: 52 minutes 8 seconds

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Epis. 332: U. of Michigan art historian/scholar Joan Kee on Korean contemporary art, emojis, and going through law school & corporate law on her way to becoming an art historian

Published: Nov. 12, 2022, 8:49 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 21 minutes 20 seconds

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ICA San Diego director Andrew Utt: on the curatorial process, and how to increase the art reputation of a city not known for its art world

Published: Oct. 30, 2022, 10:25 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 27 minutes

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Epis.330: Cole Sternberg, from painting with the elements to his Free Republic of California project to moving to a farm during the pandemic

Published: Oct. 15, 2022, 9:55 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 31 minutes 19 seconds

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Epis.329: Ben Davis on the Ordinary World Record Egg, what to do when Apple co-opts your artwork, and where high art meets immersive art

Published: Oct. 1, 2022, 7:40 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 4 minutes 16 seconds

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Epis.328: Ben Davis, National Art Critic for Artnet News and author most recently of Art in the After-Culture

Published: Sept. 17, 2022, 9:38 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 6 minutes 38 seconds

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Epis.327: Val Zavala on the Extinction Circle, Death Cafes and the New 10 Commandments for Future Generations

Published: Sept. 3, 2022, 8 p.m.
Duration: 55 minutes 39 seconds

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Epis.326- NYC art appraiser David Shapiro: from valuing a work of art to shifting from his own art career

Published: Aug. 20, 2022, 6:46 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 6 minutes 40 seconds

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Immersive art installations: who visits them, why, and where they're headed...with Kate Sharkey, painter and a 'host' at ARTECHOUSE

Published: Aug. 6, 2022, 6 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 6 minutes 4 seconds

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Epis.#324- Maria Brito, her path from emerging singer to corporate lawyer to art advisor; and how she scored a Banksy for a client

Published: July 23, 2022, 6:10 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 24 minutes 10 seconds

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Epis. 323, Dave Kinsey: post-graffiti, post-illustration, post-skate art, and the BLK/MRKT gallery scene in the early-to-mid-2000s

Published: July 9, 2022, 6:28 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 7 minutes 35 seconds

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Episode 322- Profound effects on the art market, Rich-Kid art, and a painting of a polar bear

Published: June 27, 2022, 9:33 p.m.
Duration: 40 minutes 12 seconds

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Epis. 321: Working as an artist's assistant, learning to pay attention, and dedication to the process- James Griffith, part 2

Published: June 11, 2022, 7:37 p.m.
Duration: 59 minutes 25 seconds

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Epis. 320: James Griffith, L.A.-based painter, on painting with tar, and re-building his home, studio, and outdoor amphitheater- part 1 of 2

Published: May 28, 2022, 3:39 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 3 minutes 19 seconds

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Epis. 319: Sarah Thibault, S.F.-based artist, on residency hopping, conversing with ghosts, and being the last artist in San Francisco (or so it seems)

Published: May 14, 2022, 8:39 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 24 minutes 27 seconds

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Epis. 318: Andrew Russeth- art writer formerly in New York, now living in Seoul, South Korea

Published: April 30, 2022, 10:02 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 7 minutes 50 seconds

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Epis. 317: museums Invisible Labor, and how exhibition rooms are suspensions of common sense- Fernando Dominguez Rubio, part 3

Published: April 16, 2022, 8:43 p.m.
Duration: 48 minutes 57 seconds

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Epis. 316: Why MoMA goes to great lengths to recreate what's dying or only existing in the past- Fernando Dominguez Rubio, part 2

Published: April 2, 2022, 7:53 p.m.
Duration: 45 minutes 1 second

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Epis. 315: What goes on behind the scenes of a museum (specifically MoMA), and why it matters, with Fernando Dominguez Rubio, author of Still Life: Ecologies of the Modern Imagination at the Art Museum, part 1

Published: March 19, 2022, 8 p.m.
Duration: 56 minutes 12 seconds

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Epis. 314: Oligarch Shortage, SuperBlue Indictment, and the Cinema of Transgression: the Guest-Less Episode courtesy OLD NEWS

Published: March 7, 2022, 1:38 a.m.
Duration: 31 minutes 20 seconds

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Epis.313: Sam Francis- king of desire,

Published: Feb. 19, 2022, 9:22 p.m.
Duration: 52 minutes 41 seconds

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Epis.312: Writer Gabrielle Selz on Sam Francis, an abstract painter who broke all the rules

Published: Feb. 5, 2022, 8:02 p.m.
Duration: 55 minutes 10 seconds

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Epis. 311: Sydney Croskery, part 2 of 2-

Published: Jan. 22, 2022, 3:45 a.m.
Duration: 51 minutes 10 seconds

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Epis.310: Sydney Croskery, Los Angeles artist

Published: Jan. 8, 2022, 9:22 p.m.
Duration: 54 minutes 7 seconds

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Epis.309: Running a gallery, creating community,

Published: Dec. 25, 2021, 8:23 p.m.
Duration: 58 minutes 11 seconds

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Epis.308: Yoshino of Artist Decoded (the podcast), part 1 of 2

Published: Dec. 13, 2021, 12:32 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 2 minutes 21 seconds

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Epis.307: a Spanish painter (Antonio Murado) goes to New York City-

Published: Nov. 26, 2021, 1 p.m.
Duration: 58 minutes 21 seconds

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Episode 306: Collector disconnect, enjoying without owning, and

Published: Nov. 13, 2021, 10:01 p.m.
Duration: 51 minutes 55 seconds

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The challenge of describing contemporary art (even for a writer):

Published: Oct. 30, 2021, 8:34 p.m.
Duration: 57 minutes 5 seconds

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Epis.304: Virtual Cafe w/special guest Rose Bricetti

Published: Oct. 16, 2021, 7:51 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 17 minutes 33 seconds

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Epis.303: Status Signals, and risking a Lower Status

Published: Oct. 2, 2021, 8:56 p.m.
Duration: 51 minutes 27 seconds

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Epis 302: Hannah Wohl, part 3-

Published: Sept. 18, 2021, 9:30 p.m.
Duration: 51 minutes 43 seconds

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Epis. 301- Bound by Creativity, pt 2 with Hannah Wohl

Published: Sept. 4, 2021, 5:49 p.m.
Duration: 43 minutes 12 seconds

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Episode 300- Hannah Wohl on her book Bound by Creativity: part 1

Published: Aug. 21, 2021, 9:43 p.m.
Duration: 42 minutes 3 seconds

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Epis. 299- NYC artist and writer Melissa Stern:

Published: Aug. 7, 2021, 9:46 p.m.
Duration: 59 minutes 41 seconds

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Best-Of episode with Ben Davis (ArtNet News and

Published: July 24, 2021, 7:30 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 52 minutes 59 seconds

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Epis. 298: from cedar salvaging to becoming a landlord

Published: July 10, 2021, 3:39 a.m.
Duration: 58 minutes 20 seconds

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Sharon Butler, painter and the

Published: June 26, 2021, 4:56 a.m.
Duration: 45 minutes 8 seconds

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Epis.#296: Jennifer Moon, Los Angeles artist, would-be revolutionary, & professor

Published: June 12, 2021, 7:04 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 6 minutes 28 seconds

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Epis.#295: LA-based photographer Rakeem Cunningham

Published: May 29, 2021, 6:34 p.m.
Duration: 55 minutes 51 seconds

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Epis.#294: the art of art forgery

Published: May 15, 2021, 7:26 p.m.
Duration: 59 minutes 54 seconds

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Epis.#293: When the aim is the immaterial- artist Mitchell Chan

Published: May 1, 2021, 8:37 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 19 minutes 17 seconds

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Epis.#292: the chirp-less crickets of Kauai:

Published: April 17, 2021, 5:17 a.m.
Duration: 58 minutes 51 seconds

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Epis.#291: How did he make that??! plus...

Published: April 3, 2021, 3:55 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 26 minutes 19 seconds

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Katarina Wong, part 2 of 2

Published: March 20, 2021, 6:31 p.m.
Duration: 42 minutes 13 seconds

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Epis.#289: Can an artist get completely immersed in the making? Katarina Wong, part 1 of 2

Published: March 6, 2021, 9:28 p.m.
Duration: 51 minutes 4 seconds

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Epis.#288: Being a Museum Director during the Trump era

Published: Feb. 20, 2021, 7:46 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 2 minutes 10 seconds

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Epis.#287: Can art workers organize?

Published: Feb. 6, 2021, 6:36 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 8 minutes 4 seconds

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Curator and NYU Professor Miriam Basilio Discusses Breaking the Museum Diversity Barrier

Published: Jan. 23, 2021, 8:35 p.m.
Duration: 58 minutes 2 seconds

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Published: Jan. 12, 2021, 4:27 a.m.
Duration: N/A

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Matthew Burrows, MBE- English painter

Published: Jan. 10, 2021, 2:42 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 17 minutes 8 seconds

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Epis.#284: 'Best-of' episode with Carolina Miranda

Published: Dec. 28, 2020, 3:25 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 13 minutes 23 seconds

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Epis.#283: Los Angeles-Based Artist Colleen Hargaden:

Published: Dec. 12, 2020, 5:58 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 6 minutes 53 seconds

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Epis.#282: Nato Thompson's Indig-Nation

Published: Nov. 29, 2020, 1:43 a.m.
Duration: 39 minutes 18 seconds

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Epis.#281: Steve Lambert (part II of II), on how Capitalism works -

Published: Nov. 14, 2020, 8:16 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 1 minute 20 seconds

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Epis.#280: Steve Lambert, artist and co-founder of the Center for Artistic Activism

Published: Oct. 31, 2020, 11:24 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 13 minutes 46 seconds

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Epis.#279: NYC-based Artist Michelle Vaughan

Published: Oct. 18, 2020, 9:31 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 12 minutes 52 seconds

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Epis.#278: Los Angeles-based sculptor Alicia Piller

Published: Oct. 3, 2020, 9:49 p.m.
Duration: 49 minutes 40 seconds

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Epis.#277: New York-based art critic Seph Rodney

Published: Sept. 19, 2020, 5 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 3 minutes 56 seconds

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Epis.#276: Greg Allen on "Naked Stratification"

Published: Sept. 5, 2020, 10:17 p.m.
Duration: 59 minutes 55 seconds

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Epis.#275: Greg Allen of greg.org

Published: Aug. 22, 2020, 11:34 p.m.
Duration: 58 minutes 5 seconds

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Epis.#274: 'A Delightful Nightmare:' LARP-ing the 'Great Success Machine'

Published: Aug. 8, 2020, 8:26 p.m.
Duration: 57 minutes 47 seconds

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Epis.#273: Los Angeles-Based Painter Forrest Kirk

Published: July 27, 2020, 9:54 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 1 minute 49 seconds

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New York-Based Ayana Evans Reveals Her Honest Experience

Published: July 11, 2020, 8:14 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 20 minutes 4 seconds

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Kate Mothes, nomadic curator behind the platform Young Space

Published: June 27, 2020, 8:52 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 17 minutes 38 seconds

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Epis.#270: NY-based Truly Rebellious Artist Joanne Greenbaum-

Published: June 13, 2020, 5:13 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 8 minutes 1 second

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Epis.#269: William Powhida (part 2 of 2)

Published: May 30, 2020, 5:57 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 5 minutes 56 seconds

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Epis.#268: William Powhida (part 1 of 2)

Published: May 16, 2020, 5:40 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 10 minutes 50 seconds

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Epis.#267: SoCal artist & professor Elizabeth Folk

Published: May 2, 2020, 8:20 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 14 minutes 43 seconds

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San Francisco-based artist Danielle Baskin

Published: April 18, 2020, 8:28 p.m.
Duration: 59 minutes 52 seconds

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Epis. 265: on Jordan Wolfson's 'Hot and Toxic' art,

Published: April 4, 2020, 10:21 p.m.
Duration: 59 minutes 35 seconds

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Epis.# 264: the COVID-19 Special

Published: March 28, 2020, 5:58 a.m.
Duration: 46 minutes 10 seconds

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Episode 263: Brooklyn-based artist and adjunct professor Alex Strada

Published: March 14, 2020, 7:07 p.m.
Duration: 56 minutes 8 seconds

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Epis.#262: Amy Kisch, Bay-Area curator, art advisor and organizer

Published: Feb. 29, 2020, 7:10 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 23 seconds

Bay Area co-director of Art+Action, head of AK Art Advisory and former Sotheby\\u2019s gatekeeper Amy Kisch talks about :

Her organizing work to bring awareness to the Census in the San Francisco Bay Area, through various partnerships with organizations and artists, as her favorite hybrid of art and social justice coming together; her time working at Sotheby\\u2019s auction house in New York, first in the proposals division, followed by running Sotheby\\u2019s Preferred, their VIP program for top clients, which put her in a sort of \\u2018bouncer\\u2019 role; why she thinks her friends who have stayed at Sotheby\\u2019s have chosen to do so, whereas for Amy, having come from a social work background, it just wasn\\u2019t going to be a long-term fit; differences she\\u2019s encountering living in the Bay Area compared with the much more market-centric New York, where there\\u2019s much more \\u201cdrafting FOMO\\u201d guiding how people collect; her love for the Bay Area, and yet her significant awareness of both the housing crisis and the homeless crisis, which she calls \\u2018post-apocalyptic.\'

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Epis. 261: interim Co-Host Deb Klowden Mann

Published: Feb. 15, 2020, 4 p.m.
Duration: 1 hour 1 minute 23 seconds

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Epis.#260: painter and professor Sara Frantz

Published: Feb. 1, 2020, 6:08 a.m.
Duration: 48 minutes 28 seconds

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Epis.#259: Carl Baratta, L.A. artist and co-director of TSA L.A.

Published: Jan. 18, 2020, 7:52 a.m.
Duration: 59 minutes 15 seconds

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Epis.# 258: The 'Meta' Episode/Search for a Co-Host

Published: Jan. 7, 2020, 6:26 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 9 minutes 58 seconds

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Epis.#257: Nick Brown-- L.A. painter and director of the Davyde Whaley Foundation

Published: Dec. 21, 2019, 11:14 p.m.
Duration: 59 minutes 56 seconds

L.A.-based painter Davyd Whaley Foundation director Nick Brown talks about :

Quitting all his teaching jobs in favor of bartending while in New York because he needed to be making significantly for the high cost of living; how he got his current day job as director of the Davyd Whaley Foundation, which gives artist\\u2019s grants in the Southern California region, and what the job entails; how his being involved in the jury process has made him more sympathetic to artists who apply, advocating for prospective grantees; how he\\u2019s found artists in L.A. to be more generous in sharing opportunities than he experienced while in New York, and how he really likes to making art world introductions; his career successes and struggles, and how he sees the Whaley grant for emerging artists as a way for them to get a boost of recognition and advances their career; how he\\u2019s maintaining his UCLA extension teaching job in addition to being the Foundation director because he loves teaching so much, despite its challenges; how he sells his work, both to collectors he\\u2019s been able to cultivate without a gallery, as well as small watercolors on Instagram; the story of when a collector rang him up out of the blue and bought $10k of his work at a moment when he was really hurting financially; and how he applied to New American Paintings two years in a row with the exact same work, getting in the 2^nd time (because it was all about the viewer, he said--not the work).

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Epis.#256: Sarah Friend-- internet artist and software engineer--

Published: Dec. 8, 2019, 3:55 a.m.
Duration: 1 hour 1 minute 26 seconds

\\u1427Canadian but now Berlin-based artist and software engineer Sarah Friend talks about:

Living in Berlin as an ex-pat among an ex-pat community so large that it tends to keep her and others from properly integrating into a big German city, and yet the Ven diagram of her kind of people - artists and people in tech - is in full force there; her day-job projects vs. her own art projects, which sometimes have a little overlap (she\\u2019s working on a Universal Basic Income-based cryptocurrency called Circles as a recent paid gig, for example); how she got started in software engineering (on her own, self-taught, early-20s), born out of her disillusionment with the class realities of the art world vis-\\xe0-vis her fellow graduating art students, as well as needing paid work coming into the great recession job market, and becoming an Occupy-er; her Remembering Network, an interactive digital memorial to all the species that are reaching extinction; and the existential questions, in light of that piece but other works she makes as well: when does something become art, and when does it not? And the way she sometimes she\\u2019s her art-making as having an extra limb: it would be a phantom limb if it were somehow taken away.

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